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China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

bbc.com

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Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#141

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

dirtyid wrote: post #139
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what if XJ works? It may well work. And mass sterilisation of women also works ( https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/china-conducting-mass-steril... ) in that being sterilised stops them having kids, which is the point. Most effective too! What you're totally, frighteningly blind to is whether it's morally OK.

Sinicizating XJ will be mostly cultural genocide, which of course is immoral. Though many Uighurs will still remain Islamic but with Chinese characteristics - promoting religion is key Chinese foreign policy to connect with OBOR cultures. No, I'm not blind to it, nor to dumb western media spins, i.e. mass sterilization = 2 child policy. You can ask 1.3 billion Han how immoral one child policy and family planning was…

Hint: You didn't read the link. It has nothing to do with the N child policy. Here:

"The Chinese government has deployed a mass sterilization campaign against Muslim ethnic minorities in the country's western provinces, according to a new report, which argues the tactics could amount to genocide."

"Those camps are used as a form of threat and punishment, with officials detaining women and families who fail to comply with pregnancy checks or forced intrauterine contraceptive devices -- more commonly known as IUDs -- sterilizations, and even abortions."

> The original question is how the situation is communicated and discussed in China

I was responding to your delightful comment...

> what if XJ works?

And I pointed out your hideously lack of morality which is the point. So let's ask, how would you like it if your wife was sterilised against her will or had a forced abortion?

ANSWER THAT QUESTION PLEASE. Because that is what morality is about. If you don't like it, don't do it to others.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#142

Post by karxxm »

throwaway9990 wrote: post #53
rvz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what happens when you show this evidence to a Chinese Ambassador and diplomat. [0] [0] https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145

Those are prisoners.

If those are "only" prisoners, then it should be okay to let foreign inspectors in and talk to the "prisoners", shouldn't it?

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#143

Post by [deleted] »

puranjay wrote: post #84
aaomidi wrote: post #24

A recommended watch: https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c This is what China wants you to see. Now think about what they don't watch you to see.

That video is really creepy. One guy is dancing in front of the camera with a huge bruise on his face - possibly the victim of some "reeducation"

[deleted]

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#144

Post by dirtyid »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #141
dirtyid wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sinicizating XJ will be mostly cultural genocide, which of course is immoral. Though many Uighurs will still remain Islamic but with Chinese characteristics - promoting religion is key Chinese foreign policy to connect with OBOR cultures. No, I'm not blind to it, nor to dumb western media spins, i.e. mass sterilization = 2 child policy. You can ask 1.3 billion Han how immoral one child policy and family planning was…

Hint: You didn't read the link. It has nothing to do with the N child policy. Here: "The Chinese government has deployed a mass sterilization campaign against Muslim ethnic minorities in the country's western provinces, according to a new report, which argues the tactics could amount to genocide." "Those camps are used as a form of threat and punishment, with officials detaining women and families who fail to comply…

I did and I know much more bout the subject than you. China removing family planning policy exemptions for minorities like Uighurs started back in 2017 [1]. The policy was proposed back in 2014 [2] and was thoroughly discussed China watching circles. This is not a new policy change, and one Zenz should be aware of for at least 5+ years. I know I was. I also know this move is in context of new, 2nd gen minority policy and applies to all 55 minority groups. But he's only now conveniently claiming it's meeting the UN definition for genocide. By his definition 1.3B han has been going through more extreme one-child policy genocide for the past 40 years. To be blunt, it's another retarded Zenz hit piece coordinated with US sanctions, build up to magnitskying XPCC (2.5M paramilitary governing XJ) a few days ago.

[1]https://time.com/4881898/china-xinjiang-uighur-children/

[2] https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/08/chinese-official-floats...

>Moral Question

I think family planning is necessary evil for China and new 2 child policy, i.e. replacement level is a good compromise for demographic and environmental stability. Ultimately China wants to settle at E: Apparently applying too fast. It should make the CCP look the same way it did for the last 40 years of one-child policy. Only ones that look bad are useful idiots believing Trump + Pompeo uncritically. I wouldn't have 2 children if the family planning policy is to have 2 children. I would be in a partnership with someone that accepts that. And to be extra clear: necessary evil = I endorse.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#145

Post by kaybe »

chloerei wrote: post #130
kaybe wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was reasonable then there wouldn't be any problem with letting us check, no? I'm from Germany, this looks exactly like the thing we reiterate 'never again' on. What would you have done, looking at Germany in 1940? The sad truth is, most people would do nothing, and that is something we try to work against.

Yes, come and check, as far as I know, the government welcomes foreign media to visit Xinjiang. FMRPC once publicly invited Pompeo to visit Xinjiang. (You can use Google Translate to read) https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/web/fyrbt_673021/t1798202.shtml As mentioned earlier, the BBC visited the education camp, but found no evidence of abuse and had to use filters and editing techniques to instill ideas into the audience.

I'm sorry, this is not enough. We need a competent neutral and trusted third party to verify the truth thoroughly if we want to make sure. Statements of the Chinese government concerning this matter are not trustworthy. Statements of people under the power of the Chinese government are not trustworthy enough.

I understand the country of China to be a great nation of many achievements and many internal challenges that I cannot begin to understand. Just.. this looks very similar to the greatest horrible mistake my country and ancestors committed, a grave crime against us all as humanity that must be prevented everywhere. It's a slope, you don't start with the death camps. (Have a look at our history, if you will [0].) Things like this need to be stopped as early as possible, it will only become harder. It is not becoming of any nation to have something like this in their history, doubly so if they're such a great nation with long past and achievements.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#146

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

dirtyid wrote: post #144
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hint: You didn't read the link. It has nothing to do with the N child policy. Here: "The Chinese government has deployed a mass sterilization campaign against Muslim ethnic minorities in the country's western provinces, according to a new report, which argues the tactics could amount to genocide." "Those camps are used as a form of threat and punishment, with officials detaining women and families who fail to comply…

I did and I know much more bout the subject than you. China removing family planning policy exemptions for minorities like Uighurs started back in 2017 [1]. The policy was proposed back in 2014 [2] and was thoroughly discussed China watching circles. This is not a new policy change, and one Zenz should be aware of for at least 5+ years. I know I was. I also know this move is in context of new, 2nd gen minority policy…

> it's another retarded Zenz hit piece

AKA it makes the CCP look bad so it must be a 'hit piece'.

So, again, how would you like it if your wife was sterilised against her will or had a forced abortion?

ANSWER THE QUESTION

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#147

Post by DarthGhandi »

bArray wrote: post #121

As fellow humans, there is no way to look at this situation and find something positive. The actions of the CCP need to be condemned. If you disagree with this point, we are fundamentally at odds. To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people. I think we should always make it very clear that it's not the Chinese people we take issue with and we are n…

> To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people

What would you say if the people widely supported it? Do you have evidence otherwise?

Most mainlanders don't seem to care at all, that's pretty common knowledge and not some fear of speaking out issue. There's plenty of online forums where they anonymously express themselves and widely mock and criticise the government yet you won't find many being about Xinjiang province other than what the West is reporting on it.

Have you spent much time on the Chinese internet?

So to go back to my question, if it's actually the people who support this, do you consider them the enemy too?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-30/why-many-in-china-sup...

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#148

Post by Grimm665 »

ailun wrote: post #100
phreack wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a comparable situation with Americans, many people are unaware of the Tulsa massacre, and the reaction I've seen from people first hearing about it is mostly anger at it not being taught. Personally I'd be thankful to know of censored history, particularly if it is occurring and being censored right now, in a democracy.

What? I learned about the Tulsa massacre, and another similar situation that I can’t remember (maybe in Florida?), in high school. How is it being censored?

I grew up in what would be called a progressive part of the US and was never taught about it. I felt angry and supremely let down by our education system that I only found out about this last week.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#150

Post by [deleted] »

bArray wrote: post #121

As fellow humans, there is no way to look at this situation and find something positive. The actions of the CCP need to be condemned. If you disagree with this point, we are fundamentally at odds. To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people. I think we should always make it very clear that it's not the Chinese people we take issue with and we are n…

[deleted]
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