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China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

bbc.com

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Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#41

Post by katbyte »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35
cycomanic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are some of the thoughts I've been having as well. On the other hand I'm actually generally interested in how this situation is communicated in China? How much and what do they know about it (note that they left China some years ago). I have to say I also find it chilling to say we can't discuss topics which have political implications for fear of it being construed of harassment. I have been frequently asked a…

> I have been frequently asked about political events/situations in Germany Do those involve anything as awful as what's happening in China? If they were and you were asked to comment, how would it make you feel? > I have to say I also find it chilling to say we can't discuss topics which have political implications Sure you can! Just not at work. Mate, don't do it. Take it from someone who can't keep his mouth shut.

The “don’t talk politics” at work thing has always confused me, isn’t standing by silent while injustices occur sorta what led to the nazis?

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#42

Post by mattigames »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35
cycomanic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are some of the thoughts I've been having as well. On the other hand I'm actually generally interested in how this situation is communicated in China? How much and what do they know about it (note that they left China some years ago). I have to say I also find it chilling to say we can't discuss topics which have political implications for fear of it being construed of harassment. I have been frequently asked a…

> I have been frequently asked about political events/situations in Germany Do those involve anything as awful as what's happening in China? If they were and you were asked to comment, how would it make you feel? > I have to say I also find it chilling to say we can't discuss topics which have political implications Sure you can! Just not at work. Mate, don't do it. Take it from someone who can't keep his mouth shut.

"Just not at work" always sounds strange to me, a lot of people know all their friends and acquaintance exclusively from work, so when people is recommended to avoid talking about those issues with coworkers many times the result is for all practical purposes they are being told to avoid talking about the issue at all. I'm not sure what the solution is but "just not at work" doesn't seem to be it.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#43

Post by lc5G »

fiblye wrote: post #40
cycomanic wrote: post #19

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

There are two outcomes: 1: They really will not know what you're talking about and think you're crazy and just hate Chinese people (this is common). 2: They will somewhat know what you're talking about, and have a massive list of bad things your country has done/is still doing, and you won't be happy (this is also common, but slightly less common) If you were good friends, you can mention this and drop it and try to…

> They will somewhat know what you're talking about, and have a massive list of bad things your country has done/is still doing, and you won't be happy

Ignoring the "at work" part, you can then both realize that you should acknowledge and fight against any country doing bad things and that these bad things are not excused because other countries (or people) are also doing bad things. Two wrongs don't make a right.

(I'm aware you did not claim that they did.)

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#44

Post by jhanschoo »

cycomanic wrote: post #19

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

On one extreme, you don't know if they tend to distrust Western media while trusting Chinese state media. If it is important not to compromise your relationship with them, don't pass off any of the news as your opinion, but report about the Western reporting on the Uighurs, trying also not to signal that you trust these reports or these media outlets.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#45

Post by bmitc »

cycomanic wrote: post #19

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

In a workplace environment, it is completely inappropriate.

Second of all, why? What do you wish to discuss? What would you like to happen? What do these people have to do with it?

If you're in the U.S., do you have anything useful to discuss regarding Guantanamo Bay and the many other U.S. black sites or the Mexican concentration camps run at the border? Do you think those are appropriate conversation pieces to bring up if they don't occur naturally? How would you feel if someone brought them up as if to teach you or make you aware of them as if you didn't know or had any affect whatsoever on their existence?

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#46

Post by refurb »

katbyte wrote: post #41
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have been frequently asked about political events/situations in Germany Do those involve anything as awful as what's happening in China? If they were and you were asked to comment, how would it make you feel? > I have to say I also find it chilling to say we can't discuss topics which have political implications Sure you can! Just not at work. Mate, don't do it. Take it from someone who can't keep his mouth shut.

The “don’t talk politics” at work thing has always confused me, isn’t standing by silent while injustices occur sorta what led to the nazis?

Pro-life/anti-abortion people believe that they are fighting for human rights. Let’s say they start talking to people at work about it. If the conversation stays civilized, no big deal. But they don’t want to limit it to talking. This is about human rights how can you just sit there and do nothing? You’re complicit!

Now people are avoiding that person. Team cohesion suffers. People are calling in sick to avoid the stress of it all. Management is dealing with shit from both sides.

What would you do if you were running the company?

If you want to let people talk politics at work, you can’t just limit it to the politics you agree with.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#47

Post by dirtyid »

Arbalest wrote: post #34
dirtyid wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh, more Zenz quotes and his "credible" estimates. >A few days later, the prisoners were loaded onto minibuses and sent away to an unknown location. It would be trivially easy to strip out the meta data and geo-locate his location to match buildings across to see if it's an actual detention site. But naw, unknown location and unverifiable documents. The sad thing is the psyops aren't very good, the audience is just…

The issue with the USA224 for circulation of media in the public (call it propaganda or propaganda busting, not relevant) is that it states pretty clearly "As the Military of the United States, we have a problem with you, China". That's getting pretty close to a declaration of war. Edit: OK strictly it is not operated directly by the military, but by an intelligence organisation. The line here is a bit blurry though,…

I was just being cute with USA224. The context is Zenz claims there are ~1,200 facilities to account for 1-3M detentions (not concurrent), but the only credit analysis by ASPI could only identify 180. ASPI is another very pro US, AU based think tank with funding from US MIC.

We're _3+ years_ into this thing and it seems like western interests have zero incentive to have a proper accounting of the situation, which is getting unalterably suspicious. Instead consistently rely on atrocity porn from interviewees who change testimonies and quotes from Zenz or other biased reporting. i.e ASPI also did study on Uyghur for sale, but omits context that the lowest compensation they could find basically extrapolates to entry level wage at Foxconn and significantly higher than backwater prefectures (Hotan) prisoners are from.

If the "somewhere in between" narrative between mass genocide and just re-education / vocational training camps is: less than 0.1% of China is being forcefully indoctrinated for lower middle class wages, then the entire western muh "human rights" campaign collapses. So here's more Zenz, non-compelling testimony, previously debunked organ harvesting / holocaust claims so susceptible western audiences can project their own Godwin law delusions onto. Also XJ is a blackbox, except the social media flowing out of it that we won't report on. Otherwise what's happening in XJ is just boring cultural genocide with more cameras and spread sheets, which to be blunt, is geopolitically unactionable.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#48

Post by admk »

cycomanic wrote: post #19

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

My suggestion is that you shouldn't bother. The Chinese people would not believe the Western media narrative on Xinjiang (XJ), which also doesn't really have credible sources if look deeper into their "facts" [0]. And it is increasingly clear that the XJ narrative is a US-backed propaganda rather than factual reporting [1]. Most of us would consider the western people being brainwashed into believing whatever the media puts out about XJ, just as much as the English speaking westerners think about us. Please ponder about this: can I, as a Chinese, easily change your media-fed opinion on XJ? Yet I am trying my best here (because I procrastinate).

The video shown by the BBC about the official visit to the vocational training center implants a subliminal message of "bad things are happening here" with eerie BGM and horror-movie-like filter. Your system 1, i.e. your fast, instinctive and emotional mind [2] would also be tricked by that too. Regardless of what's happening there, do you really think this is the way of objective, bias-free reporting?

Personally, I do not like the way they train these people. Westerners would never understand this culturally. But when compared to the war effort instigated by the US against Islamic nations, vocational training is IMHO a much better alternative against terrorism. XJ used to have a terrorism problem, and it's now much safer.

I would suggest you guys to travel in XJ after opening up, if possible, it is an incredible place to visit. If not then there are plenty of local people on youtube vlogging their daily lifes.

[0]: https://twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/128826906429753753... [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/hwi7ub/i_am_soph... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

Source: am Chinese living in China, sitting in a coffee shop and procrastinating. Edit: typo.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#49

Post by phreack »

bmitc wrote: post #45
cycomanic wrote: post #19

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

In a workplace environment, it is completely inappropriate. Second of all, why? What do you wish to discuss? What would you like to happen? What do these people have to do with it? If you're in the U.S., do you have anything useful to discuss regarding Guantanamo Bay and the many other U.S. black sites or the Mexican concentration camps run at the border? Do you think those are appropriate conversation pieces to brin…

There is a comparable situation with Americans, many people are unaware of the Tulsa massacre, and the reaction I've seen from people first hearing about it is mostly anger at it not being taught.

Personally I'd be thankful to know of censored history, particularly if it is occurring and being censored right now, in a democracy.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#50

Post by rvz »

aaomidi wrote: post #24

A recommended watch: https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c This is what China wants you to see. Now think about what they don't watch you to see.

This is what happens when you show this evidence to a Chinese Ambassador and diplomat. [0]

[0] https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145

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