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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#531

Post by krzyk »

wlesieutre wrote: post #246
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

Beyond the security of not giving our credit cards, and the convenience of not having 8 different game updater/launcher clients, Apple’s App Store policies also limit 3rd party software’s ability to fuck up my devices in a myriad of ways. If they’re forced to open up to 3rd party stores, I hope they can do it in a way that prevents Adobe from running 8 background processes to make sure my license is current and there…

> Apple’s App Store policies also limit 3rd party software’s ability to fuck up my devices in a myriad of ways.

And also makes apps like Tasker impossible, which from my side of the table is too much.

There should be a button somewhere in iOS called "safety belts off" and I should be able to do anything to a device I bought.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#532

Post by jlnthws »

striking wrote: post #324
jlnthws wrote: post #296

Apple sells an experience, it's hard to find a common ground to those single store monopoly issues without compromising this experience and tarnishing Apple's precious image. Suppose Apple standardizes jailbreaking: say they allow you to turn on a switch that creates a sandbox on your device for you to do whatever you want. Your device would then be running freestyle without warranty, fair enough for me as a first mo…

> What's going to happen next is a handful of illiterate or unaccountable users will deface Apple's reputation by bombarding news sites with their misfortune. Many Android phones already allow you to gain access to root or to replace the OS that the device ships with (and even more of them allow for indiscriminate sideloading, even without rooting). Has Android's reputation been "defaced" over this opportunity for us…

I was being satirical with my wording but the issue with Apple is different. Android is fragmented by design, there is Google, Samsung, Huawei, etc. companies which sell a lot of other things, so Android image may be less of an issue for them. Apple literally is iDevice, it's more than 2/3 of their revenue.

But indeed "reputation" is more about marketing and at the end of the day the only thing that matters is the margin they can extract from aftermarket sales. As the recent antitrust inquiry shows, we were short of having 40% fee on app store sales.

https://twitter.com/HouseJudiciary/status/128856728139671142...

I think 30% made sense back then when the platform was tiptoeing. Now it may look as an abuse of dominant position, the classical shareholders vs workers game. I wonder how the appstore operating costs and profit have evolved over time.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#533

Post by Silhouette »

scarface74 wrote: post #527
Silhouette wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many successful web apps, period. Just not on iOS, if they need the "wrong" functionality.

Where are these financial successful web apps?

Sorry, not going to respond further to obvious trolls.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#534

Post by ig1 »

nodamage wrote: post #327
ig1 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing the common-usage meaning with the legal definition. Generally in Europe the market share threshold for monopoly investigations is 25% - Apple's market-share for mobile app sales is well above that threshold.

Not sure where you got 25% from? > The Commission considers that low market shares are generally a good proxy for the absence of substantial market power. The Commission's experience suggests that dominance is not likely if the undertaking's market share is below 40 % in the relevant market. [1] Historically the European Commission's antitrust cases against tech giants have largely been against companies with overwhe…

The 1994 investigation of Nintendo & Sega for monopoly practices in game distribution which is the closest historical case.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#535

Post by coldtea »

echelon wrote: post #75
coldtea wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are bolted on hacks and don't have the combined support of Apple and Google. If you don't like "bolted on hacks" you'd like Web APIs and HTML as an application development platform even less...

You just insulted the platform of an entire swath of developers. I'll take it you didn't intend to attack their work, because it sounded kind of close to that. You're taking a very narrow point of view. The web is the last free thing we have that keeps us from being eternally bound to rent seekers. You shouldn't attack it. You should be grateful for it. It's because of things like the web and open source we have an i…

>The web is the last free thing we have that keeps us from being eternally bound to rent seekers.

On the contrary, ever since the web got hot, all we've had is rent seekers...

Everything is now a SaaS, closed code behind closed servers, and on the web everything major people would want to use (from Gmail to Basecamp, and from Notion to Slack), is either ad-supported (yuck) or requires a paid subscription.

I'd rather have the old native apps of yore: mine, forever after I paid for them (plus a freeware ecosystem, plus shareware, plus FOSS).

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#536

Post by coldtea »

echelon wrote: post #419
coldtea wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple had the opportunity to lean on the web and elected not to. Thank god for that. It's why mobile computing in 2020 isn't just Electron apps, like the desktop increasingly becomes...

WASM is about to change your entire world.

Yes, bring half the native performance and non-native/non-web GUIs to the browsers...

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#537

Post by coldtea »

627467 wrote: post #317
coldtea wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody forces anybody to buy an Apple product... In fact, Apple charges more, so it makes it even more difficult to buy them than an Android phone -- which also has multiple app install options. Why not use that?

Once you buy an apple product you lose freedoms others have. So, while no one forces me to buy from apple, once I buy apple I'm forced to buy only what apple sees fit.

That's the whole selling point. It's a controlled platform, not a dumpster fire.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#538

Post by benhurmarcel »

spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

For apps that let you subscribe either in the app or on the web, do you voluntarily choose to pay 20~30% more for that convenience? For example, Dropbox is $12 in-app vs $10 on the web. Youtube Premium is $16 in-app vs $12 on the web. Spotify is $13 in-app vs $10 on the web.

Do you think most consumers would choose to pay 20~30% more for that convenience if they were informed of that choice? And isn't it anti-consumer to deny them this information?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#539

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

xvector wrote: post #471
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current state of iOS software is that you can't run Signal in China. Or torrent client anywhere.

Okay, and why is it your fundamental right to be able to do either of those? On what basis should a company be compelled to implement that functionality? You can always buy a device that allows you to do those things, after all. It's not like Apple is the only device vendor out there, or even a majority device vendor.

Because if I own the device, manufacturer should not decide what kind of apps I can run.

See: a user in China owns the iPhone and wants to run the app.

Apps developer wants a user to run the app.

And only Apple doesn't let it happen, on the device that it doesn't own anymore.

Regarding your argument, "do not buy it", of course I don't buy it! But that doesn't make this position of Apple right, and I'm glad that lawmakers might put an end to this malicious practice.

Returning your argument, if Apple wants to control what users do with the iPhones, perhaps they shouldn't give up their ownership of devices and shouldn't sell them.

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