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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#351

Post by AnthonyMouse »

sharkjacobs wrote: post #271
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

They're saying > given that I want to use and pay for a piece of software, I would rather pay through Apple and you're saying > if you want to pay through Apple, then don't use and pay for the piece of software

But that's how you get from one to the other. By refusing to use something else, the developer would have to sell through Apple in order to get your business. If they want your business, that's what they'll do.

Meanwhile other people may choose to do something else, e.g. because they would rather that more of what they pay go to the developer (where it's plausible that it be used to improve the software) than to Apple (which can't productively use any more money than it already has). And who are you or Apple to get in the way of this transaction between two independent and consenting third parties?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#352

Post by judge2020 »

oscargrouch wrote: post #190
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

I think you are missing the social and political implications of your choices. Its not just about being a monopoly in the economical sense, which is bad per-se, but to let a private company to control what you have access or not based on particular moral, political views. To forbid you to access technology that can compete with what they offer on the basis of "security". If you do not get it, they control the only ap…

> You are implying they are good actors somehow that are doing all this thinking on you, while in reality they will do whatever they can to maximize their profits, and as long as people like you are fine with it, nothing will change.

Yes. Americans fully support their money going towards 2 trillion dollar companies as long as their device works well and they can upgrade to the fastest model every 2-4 years.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#353

Post by scarface74 »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #333
scarface74 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay for Netflix right on the phone. You can go to https://netflix.com You can also buy an Android phone like 85% of the rest of the world.

Eh, I think this is one of the two points where the case against Apple's App Store model is the strongest. Not allowing applications to use third party in-app purchase systems is weakly defensible, but they not only don't allow that, they not only don't allow you to load an online store in a web view, they not only don't allow you to link to an online store that will open in Safari, the App Store terms literally do n…

Can I advertise in Walmart that they can buy the sane item cheaper from my own website?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#354

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

wlesieutre wrote: post #340
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run third party apps and Steam on macOS-equipped laptop computers just fine. Why it should be any different on pocket or tablet iOS computers?

I appreciate that iOS does not allow software to require this. Yes you can avoid the giant mess of 3rd party launchers on Mac, but only by writing off huge swaths of the software market. Want to run Photoshop? You get to have the Creative Cloud client. The current state of iOS software is that I never have to go into Task Manager and see what junk has inserted itself as a startup item, whether anything will break if…

The current state of iOS software is that you can't run Signal in China. Or torrent client anywhere.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#355

Post by wayneftw »

scarface74 wrote: post #338
skuthus wrote: post #87

If you purchase the hardware for the product, no company should be able to stop you from installing whatever you like on the product.

Like in consoles for the past thirty years? Why is it the government’s responsibility to stop you from buying a device that doesn’t fit your needs when you had an option.

You seem to be stuck on continually making the point that if something hasn’t happened already that it should never happen.

Phones are a lot more important than consoles but, if a law doesn’t exist let’s make one that applies to both phones and consoles.

This is our country. If Apple doesn’t like it they can go do business somewhere else.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#356

Post by grishka »

skuthus wrote: post #129

Apple doesn't just own the only app store on their platform: They also prevent apps that don't meet their personal moral standards on the store, arbitrarily. As a result, Instagram, tumblr, and many other sites are forced to censor and curtail content on their platforms because of apples perpetual moral consternation. Apple should be able to do this - but they shouldn't be able to do it without those companies being…

It's as if they want to eradicate the very concept of sexuality from the internet. Even if you rate your app 18+, you still aren't allowed to have any actual 18+ content in it. This makes no sense whatsoever.

Also: you have any UGC in your app? Too bad, you'll have to hire a team of moderators to enforce Apple's rules because won't someone think of the children.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#357

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

judge2020 wrote: post #322
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think I'm suggesting that? I was simply ridiculing the idea of forcing users to acquire developers license. The right way, of course, is to allow third party appstores and app sideloading. Just like we have it on macOS - and it doesn't look like someone was made unhappy because he can run Steam and buy Sketch directly from the developer. Someone besides Apple, of course.

Not forcing people to be a developer to sideload apps isn't addressing the elephant in the room that you need to have a Mac ($800+) to build them. Your solution would best be 'allow downloading and installing .app packages from websites'.

I don't quite understand why you are addressing this to me. I believe I was quite clearly against forcing users to build apps and to allow them installing apps from everywhere.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#358

Post by 627467 »

scarface74 wrote: post #343
627467 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you buy an apple product you lose freedoms others have. So, while no one forces me to buy from apple, once I buy apple I'm forced to buy only what apple sees fit.

And once I buy a Tesla I can’t buy gas like most others can. Whose fault is it that you made a choice that doesn’t fit your needs?

Being creative with our analogies? Does Tesla contractually prevents you from buying gas?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#359

Post by simion314 »

beached_whale wrote: post #266
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

Most people are naive about how applications will coerce them into doing things against their best interest when given the ability, such as a request while installing, requesting access to parts of the system that reveal PII. Most people do not have the knowledge to evaluate how these things play out. Apple via the app store at least does some work to mitigate this and when they do fail, are able to fix it.

But why Mac OS still allows competent users to buypass the security restrictions? Is it because they can't screw over MacOS users ? Or for some reasons the people that use Mac OS can be trusted but when you give the same user an iPhone his IQ drops and we can't trust him.

Come on, let's be honest this is in the first place in Apple interest, if Apple needs to sell in China then they made sure they handed over Chinese users data to the government, now if they want to sell in EU they would need to also put a bit of effort into it(I have no idea if EU market is smaller but money is money)

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#360

Post by echelon »

scarface74 wrote: post #326
echelon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you support Apple and Google in their claims to 30% of the profit, then you support Comcast charging an additional fee for Netflix. If you support Apple and Google having locked down authoritative control over the code run on their devices, then you support the Great Firewall. The only choice of a free and open society, and one mindful of the great benefit of open source and open platforms, is to remove these comp…

If you support Apple and Google in their claims to 30% of the profit, then you support Comcast charging an additional fee for Netflix. And guess what? I don’t have to use Comcast.

> I don’t have to use Comcast.

You're one of the lucky ones.

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