The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#161

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #56

behnamoh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their product and they can do whatever they want with it. If anyone doesn't like that, they can easily not purchase iDevices. Apple doesn't force people to buy their products.

i purchased one of their product ( an iphone), which now belongs to me. That doesn't mean i should be compelled to use all of their product. What if tomorrow they decide bing is the only search engine available on iOS, or iCloud the only storage solution. Would you still be holding the same argument ?

iCloud is the only storage solution when it comes to device backups.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#162

Post by simonh » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #79

simonh wrote: post #12

The only monopoly here is Apple’s monopoly on designing its own products. The iPhone, iOS, it’s development tools and the App Store are all Apple products, so Apple gets to decide what features they have. It’s also not unusual for companies to make deals with third parties to include their technology and software in their products, often as optional chargeable extras. That’s all the App Store is, it’s a way to add op…

> Are you going to mandate what features Apple, or any manufacturer of devices with embedded software, can or cannot implement? In fact, yes. Just like we mandate cars have seat belts and third brake lights, airliners have emergency exits, automobile fuel contains no lead or added ethanol, houses use electrical wires per code, and so forth. Government can simply mandate a maximum fee (like credit card interchange fee…

I think lumping this in with health and safety regulations is a super weak argument. In fact it’s no argument, the two are clearly not comparable at all.

I’ll accept the comparison to credit card fees though. As I said I’m not against all oversight of any kind. I just don’t think the 30% is all that high.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#163

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

wayneftw wrote: post #152

coldtea wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS is an option among several, not the only game in town. Nobody forces anybody to buy iOS, and if they don't they don't need to use the iOS App Store either, problem solved...

Nobody forces you to buy a Ford or a Chevy either but both of those manufacturers have to follow very strict rules about how they make and sell cars. If our country decides to make a rule about how smart phones should be created, sold or operated and Apple doesn’t like it, they can go and do business somewhere else.

Do console makers have to follow “very strict rules”.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#164

Post by spullara » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:21 PM UTC

ajconway wrote: post #47

spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

> Everything Apple is doing is helping make a better app store for me. I would prefer paying for Netflix right from the iPhone. It would be great to have torrent apps (they have legitimate use-cases). I would love to run qemu on my powerful iPad Pro. Apple does not allow any of that.

They allow Netflix to charge on the phone if they are willing to agree to the other conditions.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#165

Post by xvector » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #92

xvector wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both Google and Apple should be forced to fund the W3C and/or Mozilla in leading development of a cross-platform native experience Private entities shouldn't be forced into doing anything on a whim. You can arguably stop them from doing some things, but there is no reasonable basis for compelling companies to do things as you are saying. > Downvotes already? What's wrong with wanting an open platform? The downvotes…

> Private entities shouldn't be forced into doing anything on a whim. It's not a whim. They're being investigated by the EU and US Congress for being monopolies and suffocating smaller players. They're sucking all of the air out of the environment, making it incredibly difficult to gain traction on your own. Don't trust me? Ask DHH. > You can arguably stop them from doing some things, but there is no reasonable basis…

> It's not a whim

Saying stuff like "Google and Apple should be forced to fund the W3C and/or Mozilla" is absolutely a whim. This would be an absurd government overreach.

> They're sucking all of the air out of the environment, making it incredibly difficult to gain traction on your own.

You can absolutely succeed today without Apple. Apple is a minority player in the mobile device segment.

Perhaps Apple is more profitable for developers. But they are not a monopoly in this space yet and do not warrant anti-trust.

> Apple wouldn't be where they are today if the US Government hadn't intervened against Microsoft and forced them to pay Apple.

Microsoft, on the other hand, was a monopoly (and still is, in many ways).

> Can you imagine if those industries could act however they wanted?

Can you imagine what will happen if we keep giving the government more and more power to do what they want? See: Australia's government forcing encryption backdoors into every service.

Giving the government more and more power over companies that don't yet even constitute a monopoly is a recipe for disaster.

> Companies aren't people.

And yet companies are property, private entities, etc. Just because companies aren't people doesn't mean they are toys for the government to manipulate and control in any way they want under the guise of "antitrust regulation."

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#166

Post by Hermel » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

I hate the fact the both Apple's App Store as well as Google's Play Store do not offer basic search filters. In particular for my kids, I'd love to be able to search for games without ads or in-app purchases. But Apple and Google do not offer this feature because it would hurt their revenues. That's why I'd love to have a good alternative to the App Store or Play Store.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#167

Post by umvi » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #46

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #22

I applaud this. The manufacturer of the device must not control what apps I run on after buying it. Third-party appstores and app sideloading is a must. (And do not forget third party push-notifications, iOS devices are next to useless without them)

> The manufacturer of the device must not control what apps I run on after buying it. The manufacturer of the device is within their rights to ship the software/hardware experience they want it to have. If you do not like it, then there is no obligation for you to buy said device. You are not entitled to make the device manufacturer pour time and effort into developing support for features like this. It's quite simpl…

> The manufacturer of the device is within their rights to ship the software/hardware experience they want it to have.

This is the same logic people use to block modification of movies, music, books, video games, etc.

"The artist wants you to experience their art a specific way and the ability to [censor profanity/add zombies/change the ending/remix it] wrests control from the creator and allows people experience their art in a way they didn't intend, which is bad"

Curiously though, these people never mention altering food as destroying the experience the chef wanted them to have. For some reason consumers are allowed to have food preferences that modify art, but not preferences that modify other types of art.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#168

Post by gramakri » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #149

MereInterest wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my phone, and I can do whatever I want with it. If Apple doesn't like that, they can easily maintain ownership by not selling the device. I don't force Apple to sell iPhones instead of leaving them in a warehouse. Once I've bought it, it is mine. The entire idea that Apple can do whatever they want on a device that they have already sold is ludicrous.

And Apple didn’t force you to buy the phone....

Isn't this an argument against any company/monopoly? No company forced anyone to buy anything.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#169

Post by echelon » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #141

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually do just that: I don't buy apple's devices, for precisely this reason. And I happen to actually like them. This argument you make is actually done to the death. If you don't like Jenko's oil (ever read "The Godfather"?), you may just not buy it. It is a monopoly, and it hurts consumers. I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy be restricted by their shiny digital ha…

> It is a monopoly, Apple is a minority player in the mobile device space. If you don't want to use an Apple device no one is making you. It will not impact your daily life in any meaningful way whatsoever. > I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy be restricted by their shiny digital handcuffs. I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so hap…

> I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy let governments force private entities to do anything they want under the thinly-veiled guise of antitrust.

I don't want Apple and Google taking 30% of my profit. How hard is it as a startup to yield that much of your profit margin for such a stupid reason?

We regressed hard core since the 90s. Distribution was free. The web platform is accessible to anyone without an account or membership fee.

Anyone used to be able to write hardware drivers and innovate to the fullest extent with hardware, to get it to do whatever. Now you have to follow the distributor product roadmap and sanctioned API.

Google and Apple own compute. How the fuck did we let that happen?

The government needs to push these entities aside to ensure further innovation can continue.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#170

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

ajconway wrote: post #47

spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

> Everything Apple is doing is helping make a better app store for me. I would prefer paying for Netflix right from the iPhone. It would be great to have torrent apps (they have legitimate use-cases). I would love to run qemu on my powerful iPad Pro. Apple does not allow any of that.

You can pay for Netflix right on the phone.

You can go to https://netflix.com

You can also buy an Android phone like 85% of the rest of the world.