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Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

bbc.co.uk

171–180 of 200 posts

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#171
post #118

Always irks me how the media use the term "hackers" as some usurped terminology to describe criminal acts using technology. For me, it is like calling burglars a locksmith - that don't happen and yet we see the word "hacker" used by the media to describe criminal acts so far removed from the words original meaning that it just pains me and i'm sure many others. More so when the populus definition of that word now par…

Although I agree, I'm a little surprised the "true hacker" community hasn't adopted an alternative title to distinguish themselves.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#172
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your reasoning means that the most optimal move for Russia would be to nuke you No, I doubt Russia would dare use their nukes. Again the facility in Romania has become operational in 2019, no nuke from Russia so far. The one Obama cancelled was supposed to be in Poland. Roughly similar distance from mainland Russia. > The fact that you consider nuclear war to be winnable is horrifying. The whole point of it is that…

> No, I doubt Russia would dare use their nukes. Again the facility in Romania has become operational in 2019, no nuke from Russia so far. There's a difference between stopping a small percentage of missiles, and a large percentage of missiles. One does nothing to stop MAD. The other is a categorical change in the balance of power. It's like the difference between cutting off 5% of your air supply, and cutting off 80…

If Russia (or China) becomes militarily superior to America I would consider that the end of the free world as we know it.

As of right now America's capabilities in every domain are vastly superior and I hope it remains so.

Again you believe that America's and other countries' nuclear capability is essentially the same and nuclear war means total destruction for everybody. I don't believe that.

I think Russia wouldn't dare because they would simply lose.

If you look at the history of Soviet propaganda with regards to nuclear, they often promoted these ideas of total destruction. Say back in the day they promoted the (now mostly discredited) concept of "nuclear winter". Russia actively wants Western fear and disarmament because that's the only way they can be "strong".

There is no alternative to an arms race. Russia and China won't simply become beautiful peace loving countries overnight if America slacks off. If anything assures nuclear war it's America being weak.

Plus you're assuming some perfect rationality where Russia (or some other country) couldn't possibly just launch an attack for a stupid reason. It's always a possibility. You want to try to win in that situation too. Under MAD you're just hoping it won't happen.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#173
post #118

Always irks me how the media use the term "hackers" as some usurped terminology to describe criminal acts using technology. For me, it is like calling burglars a locksmith - that don't happen and yet we see the word "hacker" used by the media to describe criminal acts so far removed from the words original meaning that it just pains me and i'm sure many others. More so when the populus definition of that word now par…

I believe Stallman uses, or at least used, "cracker" for criminal hacker.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#174
post #173
post #118

Always irks me how the media use the term "hackers" as some usurped terminology to describe criminal acts using technology. For me, it is like calling burglars a locksmith - that don't happen and yet we see the word "hacker" used by the media to describe criminal acts so far removed from the words original meaning that it just pains me and i'm sure many others. More so when the populus definition of that word now par…

I believe Stallman uses, or at least used, "cracker" for criminal hacker.

But that's also a slur.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#175
post #118

Always irks me how the media use the term "hackers" as some usurped terminology to describe criminal acts using technology. For me, it is like calling burglars a locksmith - that don't happen and yet we see the word "hacker" used by the media to describe criminal acts so far removed from the words original meaning that it just pains me and i'm sure many others. More so when the populus definition of that word now par…

Although I agree, I'm a little surprised the "true hacker" community hasn't adopted an alternative title to distinguish themselves.

The "true" hacker community calls criminals "crackers". That term seems to have been lost and was never used in the media. There are also more domain-specific terms like "phreakers".

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia may not be in NATO but they're still British Commonwealth, and in communion with the UK and Canada (who are founding NATO members) as well as the US. Pick a fight with Australia and the ANZUS Treaty comes into force, and if the ANAZACs are in a fight, the US and UK will almost certainly be involved.

Right, that's the point. The Asia theatre alliances may not be NATO, but there's enough NATO involvement in them to functionally work the same way. Nuke Japan? You've picked a fight with NATO. Invade Australia? Same deal.

[deleted]

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#178
post #115

If the recent HN story of Apple taking 30% of refunded purchases is any indication, fabricated stories have a frighteningly strong staying power. What was especially sad was that a highly knowledgeable group of people (HN) were misled and deceived by the Apple story (which could have been easy verified). If HN is so easily misled, how much more likely is the general population vulnerable to these foreign-government-o…

> highly knowledgeable group of people (HN) were misled and deceived Just because you work a high paying job and you're very good at it, that doesn't mean you are impervious to deceit.

[deleted]

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2019_United_States_ai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war

While I'm an advocate of the US entirely removing itself militarily from the Middle East, none of those properly qualify against the parent's point. The parent referred to starting wars. The first one doesn't qualify at all. The US and NATO have intervened in the two civil wars (along with numerous other countries; with France recently pleading with the US to remain in Syria). It's an overreach to claim the US starte…

> The US and NATO have intervened in the two civil wars

It might have been a civil war at the start, but after that it was a war of the US against two sovereign states. Nothing civil about that.

Re: Hackers post fake stories on real news sites 'to discredit NATO'

#180
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, I doubt Russia would dare use their nukes. Again the facility in Romania has become operational in 2019, no nuke from Russia so far. There's a difference between stopping a small percentage of missiles, and a large percentage of missiles. One does nothing to stop MAD. The other is a categorical change in the balance of power. It's like the difference between cutting off 5% of your air supply, and cutting off 80…

If Russia (or China) becomes militarily superior to America I would consider that the end of the free world as we know it. As of right now America's capabilities in every domain are vastly superior and I hope it remains so. Again you believe that America's and other countries' nuclear capability is essentially the same and nuclear war means total destruction for everybody. I don't believe that. I think Russia wouldn'…

> If Russia (or China) becomes militarily superior to America I would consider that the end of the free world as we know it.

Of course you do! You don't believe that MAD works!

But you are avoiding answering my question. What would you do in the scenario I drafted? Would you attack first?

> Again you believe that America's and other countries' nuclear capability is essentially the same and nuclear war means total destruction for everybody. I don't believe that.

Among the permanent security council members, it is essentially the same. The UK's tiny arsenal could trivially kill ~200 million Americans, give or take some. Russia's is fifty times its size.

What evidence, besides your belief do you have, for the United States not losing more than three quarters of its civilian population, if attacked by six thousand nuclear weapons?

> I think Russia wouldn't dare because they would simply lose.

No, everybody would lose. The reason they haven't done anything is because it is not an inflection point. Localized missile defenses that will stop a small fraction of a small fraction of potential attacks are not an inflection point that breaks MAD. They are something to complain about, not something to go to war over.

But just because cutting off 5% of your air supply doesn't result in serious problems for you, cutting it off again, and again, and again, and again will eventually reach a critical inflection point.

> If you look at the history of Soviet propaganda with regards to nuclear, they often promoted these ideas of total destruction. Say back in the day they promoted the (now mostly discredited) concept of "nuclear winter". Russia actively wants Western fear and disarmament because that's the only way they can be "strong".

Just because the reds said it, doesn't mean they were wrong.

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