It is communism 2.0. We don't need this.
Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
571–580 of 1001 posts
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#572>Even the most hardcore anti-capitalists have to give respect to how the combination of capitalism and technology has worked to lift most of the world out poverty and provided us with the security and comfort only kings enjoyed just a few century’s ago.
I reject this premise, because it is not true. Extreme poverty is a different topic (and also defined at below $2 a day), but overall, poverty is not decreasing, it's just leveling out.[1]
In a way this is what the neoliberal vision of UBI does, so I guess that's pertinent to the thread even.
[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/29/bill-g...
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#573I don't get UBI. If everyone in my town gets 100€/month on top of their regular income, how will that not drive all rents/mortgages 100€/month up?
I think there are more options for Capitalism 2.0 that can be explored: - Make healthcare fully free for everyone (e.g. including dental, eyes, etc.) - Make university education and evening courses free for everyone - Disclose compensation company-wide: This would likely also fix the gender salary gap, since women could compare their compensation to "that d00d that does nothing all day".
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#574I like the simple argument made here about UBI enabling efficient consumption. I worry about three things with UBI though and they're more social than economic. 1. Power Divide - society will be easily divided into two groups: those who depend on the UBI to live and those who don't. The former will be absolutely at the mercy of the latter. We can see this a little bit with the coronavirus relief packages. 2. Predator…
Power Divide - society will be easily divided into two groups: those who depend on the UBI to live and those who don't. The former will be absolutely at the mercy of the latter. One aspect of UBI is that poor people would be less at the mercy of the rich. If you're a poor person now you absolutely have to try to keep your horrible job else you'll lost the ability to pay rent and buy food. You have to take all the cra…
This is a weird comment to make when people are simultaneously discussing how the rich have the state do what they need - corruption, lobbying, regulatory capture, tax breaks, interest-free loans...
It shifts the power from employers to the state, not to the employees, the state then merely allows the former employees to play a little.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something no one ever talks about with UBI is how the effects will be eliminated in a few years. The very things poorer people would buy from it would get more expensive by the UBI proportion, it will just be inflated away. When everyone has an extra $1000 do you really think landlords won’t increase rent? The price of food and clothing won’t increase? When literally an entire country is richer by this amount? UBI do…
Your comment assumes that UBI is financed through printing more money. If UBI was financed through taxes, UBI would not have the inflationary effects that you describe.
If the landlords are not being taxed at least as much as they increase rent, they have an incentive to increase rent in response to UBI. The result could be an inflating effect in essentials like food and housing, even if offset by a deflating effect in non-essentials, disproportionately affecting the poor whose main expenses are essential.
IMO the only viable responses are either rent control, or more elegantly, high availability of public housing at fair rents mixed with private units so as to not create class segregation.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something no one ever talks about with UBI is how the effects will be eliminated in a few years. The very things poorer people would buy from it would get more expensive by the UBI proportion, it will just be inflated away. When everyone has an extra $1000 do you really think landlords won’t increase rent? The price of food and clothing won’t increase? When literally an entire country is richer by this amount? UBI do…
Your comment assumes that UBI is financed through printing more money. If UBI was financed through taxes, UBI would not have the inflationary effects that you describe.
You can tax jeff bezos as much as you want, low end property prices will still go up, (and food etc), because poorer people will have more money, and will spend it on the same things. You might decrease the demand for luxury yachts, but demand for necessities will be the same.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#577If I had a cent for each time people suggest UBI without explaining how to pay for it, I could probably fund UBI myself.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#578Earlier quoted context omitted.
> “do I toil away for the wealthy class? Or do I took away for myself?” This is a false dichotomy. You don’t toil for the wealthy, you toil for your fellow citizens to whom you provide a service. Nobody owes you a living.
Your fellow citizens are not employing you or else the desolate ghettos would be overflowing with capital growth. Traditionally it takes a capitalist to start a business that can feed and house a population and that capitalist is in it to extract value from their labor. The job does not exist to serve the community, it exists to make the business owner richer. All the demand in the world will not build a sandwich sho…
Returns on capital are just incentive for that guy to take out loan and take risk.
As in many cases involving risk and uncertainty a few people had outsized returns from it.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#579As is often the case this completely ignores the cost and the financing, which are key but paint a much less rosy picture of UBI (which meaning must also be clearly defined in any discussion).
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something no one ever talks about with UBI is how the effects will be eliminated in a few years. The very things poorer people would buy from it would get more expensive by the UBI proportion, it will just be inflated away. When everyone has an extra $1000 do you really think landlords won’t increase rent? The price of food and clothing won’t increase? When literally an entire country is richer by this amount? UBI do…
Your argument is easily shown to be silly if we replace $1000 with $1 mil. Now everybody is a millionaire. Does this mean that prices will increase? Of course. But will people be just as poor as before? No! People that were millionaires before are nothing special after this measure. That's what UBI does, it reduces wealth inequality between lower and upper class. Now this argument does not and will not apply to the b…
So... why isn't it $1m? Or $1bn for that matter?
As long as its something like $1000, my argument still applies. Are you saying you'd like to see a UBI of $1m?