To be clear, they are rather riot leaders who funded by US than "student group leaders".
This comment should be removed, doesn't add anything to the conversation and is speculative at best.
Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
31–40 of 135 posts
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#32It is interesting that there was recently a petition asking for people to support the national security law, and that it managed to gather 3 million signatures. For comparison, high estimations on the number of people who went on the streets to protest, was about 2 million. Both numbers are likely to be overestimations, but it seems to show that the Hong Kong people are divided about whether China is good for them, a…
If you go on journalist twitter, the “mainstream media” is full of very enterprising journalists who have done deep dives into the security law (as much as released by the CCP...) and is uniformly critical. Also rather than “online polls”, the more damning feature are the local elections, or remnants thereof, where the Beijing faction is routinely getting crushed with pro-democracy candidates getting 70-80% Of the vo…
In the last local council elections, pro-Beijing candidates got 42% of all votes, while pro-democracy candidates got 57%. That the pro-democracy candidates won almost 90% of the seats is an artifact of the election system, which doesn't guarantee proportional representation.
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#33To be clear, they are rather riot leaders who funded by US than "student group leaders".
The "these people are funded from abroad" rhetoric is employed too often by countries trying to control their population. Without hard evidence I wouldn't trust such things. I Russia, for example it's the number one way to try to discredit anybody who disagrees with the government. Yet the government, which has essentially total control over all spheres of life, has not been able to procure any evidence.
You mean like taliban funded by US against Russia.
That's what I used to think be after looking at it, the US is constantly funding destabilization efforts like this. Yes including the recent China riots.
What if it was true and we were the ones fed propaganda. The truth is out there
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you believe they are wrong about?
That's not the point. He's saying that there's no possible way to decisively figure out who does and doesn't live in Hong Kong on Quora; there are a lot of nations interested in influencing what's going on there right now (including US, I might add), and Chinese disinformation campaigns (especially ones where they pretend to be from elsewhere) aren't a new phenomenon. Petitions are bullshit, Quora is bullshit. Look f…
I wonder what you consider valid opinions then.
Suppose a foreigner posts a video on Youtube, showing that he's on the street in China, speaking about Hong Kong. Would you say that that is a valid opinion?
Also, if we're so skeptical about all sorts of online comments, do you believe I should consider all HN comments about anything political, to be invalid too because they might be disinformation campaigns?
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#35Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I did say that 3M is likely to be an overestimation. How many do you believe are fake? Let's say 40% are fake. That puts the number of legit signatures at 1.6M: still in the same ballpark as the number of protesters, which shows that society is divided. If you disagree with this analysis, I would love to hear why.
A petition is a much lower effort action than a protest. People motivated enough to protest in person probably represent a stronger opinion base than people merely motivated enough to sign a petition.
That's generally true. In this case, it's a petition about a national security law, so does that still hold? I would say that anybody signing support for a national security law has to be mad (under normal circumstances), no matter how easy it is to put down a signature.
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I did say that 3M is likely to be an overestimation. How many do you believe are fake? Let's say 40% are fake. That puts the number of legit signatures at 1.6M: still in the same ballpark as the number of protesters, which shows that society is divided. If you disagree with this analysis, I would love to hear why.
40% is the conservative estimate number the the US government faked for the net neutrality thing and that's with transparency in the comments. Let's go with 99% for China?
There was a local district election in November, in which the pro-Democracy party won. Do you believe that those election results are real or not?
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#38When the Hong Kong stock exchange listed a Chinese tech index the other day I realised Hong Kong had completely fallen. The CCP rules Hong Kong in totality now as far as I'm concerned.
Great observation, I didn't even notice. Hang Seng Index, https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/asia-markets-hong-kongs-new-... Wow.
The Hang Seng Index isn't new. The Hang Seng Tech Index is, but I don't think it contains any companies not part of the broader Hang Seng Index. I have no idea how that is supposed to demonstrate the power of the CCP.
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#39When the Hong Kong stock exchange listed a Chinese tech index the other day I realised Hong Kong had completely fallen. The CCP rules Hong Kong in totality now as far as I'm concerned.
Great observation, I didn't even notice. Hang Seng Index, https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/asia-markets-hong-kongs-new-... Wow.
Hang Seng itself is an HK company, has been ever since its inception. HSBC has owned a large part of it for a long time, too.
Re: Student group leader arrested on suspicion of inciting secession in HK
#40To be clear, they are rather riot leaders who funded by US than "student group leaders".
The "these people are funded from abroad" rhetoric is employed too often by countries trying to control their population. Without hard evidence I wouldn't trust such things. I Russia, for example it's the number one way to try to discredit anybody who disagrees with the government. Yet the government, which has essentially total control over all spheres of life, has not been able to procure any evidence.
Pompeo certainly was hinting the same in speaking of rioters in the US, and his office slyly even seems to suggest that was the reason behind closing the Houston consulate.