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The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

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Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#161

Post by r00fus »

Markoff wrote: post #86
neuronic wrote: post #67

Anecdote time: I am driving a Zoe multiple times a week and thoroughly enjoy it. Is it premium class car and will take me 600km? No, but that's not why I am driving Zoes. I drive them because it's short city commutes 99% of the time. Rarely more than 10-15km, usually transporting something or bypassing public transport in busy times/Corona/if car is just quicker. I use them via Sixt Share, a car-sharing service. Alwa…

wouldn't electric bike/scooter without renting make more sense for you? unless you use it to do big grocery, though this could be resolved by ordering grocery online I'm living in the Prague without car, only missing car when doing the grocery, but there is no point to buy car just to do big grocery once a week, might as well rent a car or take taxi or order grocery online, if I would be that lazy.

The problem with bikes in big cities is parking and theft.

Stealing an auto is a felony while a bike theft doesn’t even get marginal attention form law enforcement.

Sorry to say but we’ll need some large policy shifts to support ebikes despite how perfect they’d be.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#162

Post by Markoff »

john61 wrote: post #92
Markoff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't electric bike/scooter without renting make more sense for you? unless you use it to do big grocery, though this could be resolved by ordering grocery online I'm living in the Prague without car, only missing car when doing the grocery, but there is no point to buy car just to do big grocery once a week, might as well rent a car or take taxi or order grocery online, if I would be that lazy.

I have a bicycle trailer which caries 80 kg and has enough room for a big grocery.

never thought of this good idea, so after all the car is not necessary even for grocery, but I guess parking would be issue unless you live in house, not that big deal to find place for ebike/escooter or leave car on street, but trailer inside?

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#163

Post by pi-rat »

caf wrote: post #154
pi-rat wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either go for a fast charging car, fastest Tesla moves 1000 km in 10h (incl charging), newest E-tron manages the same in 10h20m (Teslabjørn’s tests). Or go for something super efficient, like the Kias (Kona/Ioniq). Kona does 560 km on a single charge (64 kWh) in real life tests here in Norway.

Kona and Ioniq are Hyundai models.

Haha, thanks! I was going to write the "Koreans" or "Kia/Hyundai" but apparently failed :)

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#164

Post by markosaric »

This is a great car! We have the original version (same car but smaller battery) and it still runs so good after 4 years or so. Love driving it. It's a perfect car for day to day needs around the city/shopping/commute but I also love going on longer trips of 200+ KM.

Always a new discovery of different places thanks to the need to charge. Runs about 150 KM on a single charge on eco mode so when we go on a longer trip we find a nice and interesting place to have a break and explore while it charges.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#165

Post by stinos »

r00fus wrote: post #161
Markoff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't electric bike/scooter without renting make more sense for you? unless you use it to do big grocery, though this could be resolved by ordering grocery online I'm living in the Prague without car, only missing car when doing the grocery, but there is no point to buy car just to do big grocery once a week, might as well rent a car or take taxi or order grocery online, if I would be that lazy.

The problem with bikes in big cities is parking and theft. Stealing an auto is a felony while a bike theft doesn’t even get marginal attention form law enforcement. Sorry to say but we’ll need some large policy shifts to support ebikes despite how perfect they’d be.

Yes those shifts are needed, but in some cities/countries (talking Europe here for example) that has been going on already. Resulting in more parking spaces including surveillance, and police caring about bike theft (data point: my fairly normal bike has been stolen twice, and brought back by the police twice, thanks to the engraved serial number, and that was over a decade ago). Also with electric bicycles reaching price levels of small cars and becoming way more common, law enforcement gets pushed automatically towards caring, I think.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#166

Post by fulafel »

Markoff wrote: post #162
john61 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a bicycle trailer which caries 80 kg and has enough room for a big grocery.

never thought of this good idea, so after all the car is not necessary even for grocery, but I guess parking would be issue unless you live in house, not that big deal to find place for ebike/escooter or leave car on street, but trailer inside?

Lots of apartment buildings have street level storage usable for bikes and trailers, eg in gated inner courtyards or dedicated bike storage rooms. But trailers are not very attractive vtargets for theft anyway because they are cheap and there aren't that many trailer users.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#167

Post by fulafel »

bitexploder wrote: post #77
namdnay wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons for that is that cars are cheap in the USA, in the absolute and even more relative to incomes. The cheapest RWD model 3 starts at 50k euros - that's unaffordable for 99% of french families. To give a very simplified but realistic stereotype: An upper-middle class family od two software engineers + 2 children will probably have one "premium" family car for sir (e.g. VW Golf or 3008) and one city car…

Why are they so expensive in Europe? Are cars taxed to discourage their purchase? Or does it truly cost more for a car in Europe somehow?

Most countries don't have auto industry so the incentive to stimulate car demand is missing for governments.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#168

Post by Markoff »

r00fus wrote: post #161
Markoff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't electric bike/scooter without renting make more sense for you? unless you use it to do big grocery, though this could be resolved by ordering grocery online I'm living in the Prague without car, only missing car when doing the grocery, but there is no point to buy car just to do big grocery once a week, might as well rent a car or take taxi or order grocery online, if I would be that lazy.

The problem with bikes in big cities is parking and theft. Stealing an auto is a felony while a bike theft doesn’t even get marginal attention form law enforcement. Sorry to say but we’ll need some large policy shifts to support ebikes despite how perfect they’d be.

you must live in odd country, here in Czechia is felony stealing of subject with "more than insignificant value" (read more than 200EUR although last year they wanted to raise it to 400EUR, not sure if they succeeded) regardless what is the subject, so while stealing old used car valued at 199EUR is misdemeanor (contravention), stealing bike worth 300EUR is crime

I don't think they would really treat cars differently, if they are in same value as some bike worth 10000 EUR, the thing is car is much bigger so it's more difficult to hide it and easier to notice/discover than bike and statistically most of the used bikes are worth few euros, so it would be really waste of resources, of course it's different now with ebikes, but it is same as motorbikes, much easier to hide and difficult to discover

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#169

Post by Markoff »

fulafel wrote: post #166
Markoff wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

never thought of this good idea, so after all the car is not necessary even for grocery, but I guess parking would be issue unless you live in house, not that big deal to find place for ebike/escooter or leave car on street, but trailer inside?

Lots of apartment buildings have street level storage usable for bikes and trailers, eg in gated inner courtyards or dedicated bike storage rooms. But trailers are not very attractive vtargets for theft anyway because they are cheap and there aren't that many trailer users.

not where I live, people here park bikes either in their apartment or in their cellar, which is usually very small, parking it in some common area on building would be quite rude towards other residents blocking the space and nobody will dare to park bike on street overnight

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#170

Post by WhompingWindows »

zaroth wrote: post #83
WhompingWindows wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be a long while to hit +500km range for $20k. If we assume that Tesla's batteries are around $120/kWh currently (that's generous, I think it's 127), to get 500 km range with the Model 3 would take around 130 kWh (26 kWh/100 mi). That means that the battery alone is going to be $15,000+, which is 75% of your $20k figure. In my estimation, they'd need to reduce the battery cost down by around 2/3 to reach…

I think you mixed up km and miles. 310 miles needs about 75kWh or $120 * 75 = $9,000. If the car is smaller that number also goes down.

Good call, that's an error on my part.
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