Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

support.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

981–990 of 990 posts

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#981

Post by sixothree »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #187
sixothree wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am convinced they were ordered at some point to include cameras. They definitely drive up the cost of laptops, especially earlier on when webcams were more expensive. There were so few practical uses in the early days and so few people actually use them today that I am surprised few laptop manufacturers don't allow for security.

Few people use them? I really doubt that, especially with so many people working from home these days.

I do calls with client teams multiple times per week. Developers, ops, project managers, etc. I would peg the number at 5%. I say 5% because on one recent call with 20 people there was one person using a camera.

Additional of all the people I know - friends, family, parents, children, etc., only one of those people use the camera on their laptop. Some use facetime on their phone. But even for the mac users, it's a complete rarity.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#982

Post by soulofmischief »

Twirrim wrote: post #978
soulofmischief wrote: post #972

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine if the value proposition is not right for you, and that's why we have such a breadth of phones available today. One person's aesthetic preferences are not always the only way to do things. I think the only thing we should all be able to agree upon is that rounded screen edges make it extremely difficult to design a good phone case which protects from all angles.

> and that's why we have such a breadth of phones available today We really don't. Apple came up with the notch, everyone copies it and obsesses about edge-to-edge display, managing to implement it to very varying degrees of success. > I think the only thing we should all be able to agree upon is that rounded screen edges make it extremely difficult to design a good phone case which protects from all angles. I forget…

We have dozens of flagship models, and hundreds of models in use today.

The notch is a pretty stupid design decision and I'm not obsessing over it. I have this phone now because I went through four Google Pixels this year just trying to get one that wasn't defected out of the box. My current phone was a cheap sub-$400 flagship model with support from Paranoid Android meaning it has a much extended lifespan. It's not because I obsessed over an edge to edge display.

I didn't know about the touch-sensitive issue bc I've never purchased a phone with rounded screen edges. That sounds very frustrating.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#983

Post by shard »

valuearb wrote: post #916
shard wrote: post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and what is a short term mitigation technique if the camera is hacked? Covering it with something so that you can work with the computer until it is secure again without video being recorded.

Which only requires a bit of tape, not a complex cover mechanism.

Exactly, even if it is just a bit of tape, it cannot be replaced by the LED.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#984

Post by shard »

valuearb wrote: post #550
stevenwliao wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have both the light and cover.

You only need the light.

Per the other sub-thread, the light and cover has different functions, and one cannot replicate the other. Depending on your needs, you might want the light and/or the cover.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#985

Post by hyko »

pfranz wrote: post #684
hyko wrote: post #125

Here’s the document explaining how it’s physically impossible to use the microphone when the MacBook lid is closed: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/... Where is the equivalent document explaining how it’s physically impossible for the camera to be active without the green LED lighting up?

AFAIK there's no official Apple document. Would you accept the recollection of an anonymous former Apple engineer writing to a fairly popular blog? /s https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams > All cameras after that one were different: The hardware team tied the LED to a hardware signal from the sensor: If the (I believe) vertical sync was active, the LED would light up. There is NO firmware control to…

I’ll accept it, but not bet my life on it :)

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#986

Post by arrrg »

abstrakraft wrote: post #973
arrrg wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a complicated mechanism compared to no mechanism be a step in the wrong direction?

The whole point of this thread is that Apple is telling us to not rely on dead simple devices (camera covers, tape, etc.), and instead to trust their internal mechanism that they claim can't be beat. If people take them at face value, but the mechanism is in fact complex enough to admit an exploitable vulnerability, that's a net loss of security, and is a step in the wrong direction.

But you are talking about microphones which you cannot simply cover.

I admit, muffling them is better than nothing – but in the case of microphones Apple doesn’t even advise you not to cover them.

Either way, this is just an effect of common covers seemingly breaking screens. Which sucks. However, depending on your risk profile the re-assurance of a hardware solution that lights up the LED might be plenty for you.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#987

Post by ashtonkem »

iso947 wrote: post #357
pkage wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incredibly overpriced at $26.99 for what is essentially just a dummy input...

To be fair it’s a 5 pack It seems to be something with a switch that disconnects one of the rings of a 4 pin. Easy enough, but $5 doesn’t seem awful. Of course it doesn’t disconnect built in microphones, and with modern Apple phones getting rid of 3.5mm jacks it’s value is less.

At $5, most of the cost is almost certainly logistical.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#989

Post by windexh8er »

mrignacio wrote: post #708
windexh8er wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say this. Have been using the EFF stickers for years and everyone always asks about them vs the kludgey plastic ones everyone wedges in there that Apple is making note of. I've used them in the past on my phones as well, but given the advent of multiple front facing cameras this has become more of a pain. I purchased some of this sticker material a while ago with the intent to try and laser cut some spec…

What type of material is it exactly? I want to source some for myself but don't know what type of sticker will be "ultra-removeable" and reusable.

That's the part that I was struggling to figure out. I ended up purchasing some reusable vinyl window stick material from a hobby shop, but have yet to test it.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#990

Post by fsflover »

488643689 wrote: post #885
zelon88 wrote: post #442

None of the proposed solutions do anything to actually stop the camera from taking a picture of you. Sure, you'll see the indicator light up for 3 seconds. But the attacker still got what they needed. Camera covers have nothing to do with identifying compromise. They are strictly for preventing compromise. This is exactly opposite what a camera indicator light does, and thus the indicator should not be considered a "…

Newer Thinkpads are the only laptops I've seen which bring their own camera shutters. Thinking how often you see people putting tape over their camera, it's quite astonishing build in shutters aren't more common. It's a tiny piece of plastic, costing nothing. Now what I want is a hardware microphone switch, where the off state actually connects to a noise generator.

Purism makes laptops and a phone with kill switches for camera and microphone.
Post reply on HN