Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#281

Post by imtringued » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

h0l0cube wrote: post #149

chii wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if there's a place in the world where it is possible to pay someone only to work that place is _everywhere_ on planet earth. Calling the need for somebody to work 'effective slavery' is wrong. Slavery is involuntary. work is voluntary.

You might have misread me, but I could have been clearer. A distinction can be drawn between someone who has the benefit of a wage where they can save money, and without. If the options are, work somewhere that pays just enough to live, or perish - it's not really an option. Let's say that someone who, in an alternate universe would have the aptitude to work as a Software Engineer in Silicon Valley, happened to be bo…

You're ignoring the reality that the alternative to having a bad job is not having a job at all. People work on their own farm and grow their own food. Nobody is forcing them off their farms. When they decide to work they do so voluntarily because nobody can take farming away from them.

You're not going to solve sweatshops by taking away people's agency. You get rid of them by providing viable alternatives.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#282

Post by imtringued » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

sizzle wrote: post #237

I'm surprised big companies haven't built up India to make it's own type of Shenzhen there. Seems like a huge investment by any forward looking metric. They already outsource a lot of software development.

That's something for the government to decide. Individual companies don't have that power.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#283

Post by naruvimama » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 5:23 AM UTC

thewhitetulip wrote: post #274

naruvimama wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let Pakistan handover equivalent land to India, let us not forget Ahmadiyas created the Islamic nation of Pakistan. Rohingas trace their roots to Bangladesh and there are 50+ muslim majority countries for them to migrate to, which is not the case for Hindus and Sikhs. Moreover mayanmer has unearthed mass graves of Hindus in Rohingya areas, while it isn't surprising, that isn't comforting either.

Hindus also have a lot of south Asian Hindu countries. Nepal and Cambodia comes to mind.

What else comes to mind? Cambodia?

Unless you subscribe to the view that Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#284

Post by atheist_int » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 7:54 AM UTC

thewhitetulip wrote: post #217

PostThisTooFast wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? This deserves a post of its own!

it won't be that big. After 1962, Mao was the Chinese Primier and Nehru was Indian PM. Right after the cuban missile crisis was solved, UK and US started dropping military equipment to help India. Mao then did a single handed ceasefire and retreated back to the original places. then a peace summit happened and India China decided to not indulge in a firefight at the border again. And now China had started meddling in…

Quick chime in regarding arms supply post cuban missile and 1962 Sino-China War: While US and UK definitely gave arms to India, they refused to supply advanced machinery and weapons. This is where the Soviets were glad to step in, and henceforth was one of the major reasons why in the latter half of the Cold War the India sort of allied with the Soviets; while the NATO block in general sided with Pakistan (whose really close ally was also China).

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#285

Post by totalZero » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 10:52 AM UTC

pankajdoharey wrote: post #28

xibalba wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that low cost labor is the only necessary condition for an acceptable geography. Likely, it is not. Surely companies such as Apple, with their army of supply chain professionals, has given deep thought to many options, including and beyond what the armchair analysts here on HN can dream up in the 10 minutes this topic catches their fancy.

Absolutely, manufacturing requires 1. Cheap Skilled Labour (India has unskilled labour because skilled abour is expensive in India) 2. Mineral Resource (India doesn't even have anthracite deposits for steel production) leave alone oil and other minerals for manufacturing. 3. India does have a good mix of software and other Engineers. I think the best manufacturing countries for expansion out of china are African coun…

All of these things are available in spades in South America.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#286

Post by totalZero » Mon, Jul 13, 2020, 10:54 AM UTC

xibalba wrote: post #24

totalZero wrote: post #21

As we increase the offshore footprint for manufacturing of devices consumed by Americans, we set ourselves up for a future where our national interests are far away, hard to defend, and subject to the whims of foreign nations. This is a strategic error. India seems like a good counterbalance to China -- it is, after all, an adversary of China in the region. But that could change in 10 years. Geography is important. I…

This assumes that low cost labor is the only necessary condition for an acceptable geography. Likely, it is not. Surely companies such as Apple, with their army of supply chain professionals, has given deep thought to many options, including and beyond what the armchair analysts here on HN can dream up in the 10 minutes this topic catches their fancy.

In reality, Apple could create a manufacturing ecosystem wherever it wants. The company has spent $100 billion on buybacks annually for several years. This year, it announced it would spend only $50 billion.

You never know who the armchair analysts are on HN, so you shouldn't judge their comments based on your own guessed perceptions of their characteristics. That's like a blind ad hominem fallacy.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#287

Post by thewhitetulip » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 7:56 AM UTC

naruvimama wrote: post #283

thewhitetulip wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hindus also have a lot of south Asian Hindu countries. Nepal and Cambodia comes to mind.

What else comes to mind? Cambodia? Unless you subscribe to the view that Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism.

Fine, they can go to Nepal.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#288

Post by h0l0cube » Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 3:22 AM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #281

h0l0cube wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might have misread me, but I could have been clearer. A distinction can be drawn between someone who has the benefit of a wage where they can save money, and without. If the options are, work somewhere that pays just enough to live, or perish - it's not really an option. Let's say that someone who, in an alternate universe would have the aptitude to work as a Software Engineer in Silicon Valley, happened to be bo…

You're ignoring the reality that the alternative to having a bad job is not having a job at all. People work on their own farm and grow their own food. Nobody is forcing them off their farms. When they decide to work they do so voluntarily because nobody can take farming away from them. You're not going to solve sweatshops by taking away people's agency. You get rid of them by providing viable alternatives.

> People work on their own farm and grow their own food.

This seems to be ignoring reality. If you're born in a locality without options to grow your own food, or don't have a farm to inherit, these aren't actually options.

And actually, a lot of poor people have been forced off their lands, when lucrative commercial interests have swayed law-makers and bureaucrats. Property rights aren't quite the same in poorer countries.

> You're not going to solve sweatshops by taking away people's agency.

Obviously.

> You get rid of them by providing viable alternatives.

I'm not sure how this fantasy become reality without protectionist government intervention, or the whole world deciding they won't buy cheaper socks because they aren't certified fair trade. I'm pretty certain which one of those two is more likely though.