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Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

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Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#231
post #222

A lot of people have talked about the weakness in India, but have forgotten the strengths. Outside China, India is one of the largest single market The long term growth rate is expected to be good There is a countrywide GST (similar to VAT) Uber, Amazon, Google are relatively free to be in the market, this is more liberal than in many EU countries Add to that the younger population, surplus labour, tightening global…

> Since the coronavirus, the state of UP (200 million population) has relaxed all labour laws that was preventing employment generation and investment, has aggregated government land for new industrial setup, twice the size of Luxembourg. Removing laws that protected the employees will only lead to exploitation. Is this the only way to entice investors? Factories with suicide prevention nets is the last thing India n…

There has always been a great support for strong labour laws, whether it was helping the labourers seems to be forgotten.

It was more of a tool for bureaucracy to interfere in the private sector and of course bribery. For instance factories are required by law to provide spittoons, they need to be updated.

And the presence of these laws that force a large number of business from employing full time contracted employees. Perhaps upwards of 70% workers would benefit greatly with simplified and reasonable labour laws.

Even well meaning employers are hindered from providing proper contracts in the past.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nationwide NRC is different from NRC for Assam. Nationwide NRC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens ) is mandated by 2003 Amendment of Citizenship act ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_(Amendment)_Act,_2... ). Look at the definition of illegal migrants there. It doesn't mention anything about your grandfather's papers. Assam NRC is an entirely different beast ( https://en.wikipedia.…

> Nationwide NRC is different from NRC for Assam. Wrong again. You aren't even trying that hard dude. This is not reddit. BJP govt has said in SC officially that they'll like to spread NRC to the entire country. Even though there is no real proof that illegal immigrants are flocking to India. Even bangladesh is doing well in GDP terms than us. They did their little trial in Assam and now they want to burn down the en…

> This is not reddit.

> you don't seem to know anything do you? At least do a google search before commenting and making an ass of yourself.

You're the one acting like Reddit. You seem to have been personally affected by this, so I'll stop feeding this non-discussion further.

The second part of your comment, you are talking about Assam NRC which again I said is different from nationwide NRC. A Nationwide NRC based on the 2003 amendment neither has a 1971 reference not talks about grandparents. Read my comment again.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#233

A lot of people have talked about the weakness in India, but have forgotten the strengths. Outside China, India is one of the largest single market The long term growth rate is expected to be good There is a countrywide GST (similar to VAT) Uber, Amazon, Google are relatively free to be in the market, this is more liberal than in many EU countries Add to that the younger population, surplus labour, tightening global…

> Outside China, India is one of the largest single market Having a large population (without purchasing power) isn't enough to call a region one of the largest single market in the world. China and India have growing middle class but 95% of their population still have no savings, these people only spend on food and household. The largest single market in the world is the European Economic Area, the second largest is…

> China and India have growing middle class but 95% of their population still have no savings

You have A source on this ?

What OP meant is that these are largest growing markets today and probably in the near future . people are generally interested where the growth is coming from more than where the existing spends are, especially if you are a more traditional business and not planning on disruption of a current market as a business model.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#234
post #222

A lot of people have talked about the weakness in India, but have forgotten the strengths. Outside China, India is one of the largest single market The long term growth rate is expected to be good There is a countrywide GST (similar to VAT) Uber, Amazon, Google are relatively free to be in the market, this is more liberal than in many EU countries Add to that the younger population, surplus labour, tightening global…

> Since the coronavirus, the state of UP (200 million population) has relaxed all labour laws that was preventing employment generation and investment, has aggregated government land for new industrial setup, twice the size of Luxembourg. Removing laws that protected the employees will only lead to exploitation. Is this the only way to entice investors? Factories with suicide prevention nets is the last thing India n…

In India, laws of supervision/control == means to acquire bribes.

The more India liberalizes, the easier it is for businesses to operate without the constant threat of corrupt government or police.

By removing old foolish labor laws, the state can build newer laws from scratch. Also more economic activity means more jobs. So even if people tend to lose or be unhappy at current jobs, they can find something else.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#235
post #219
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While India is a leader (currently #2 behind China) in units of smartphones sold, their value is only ~20 billion of the ~500 billion USD smartphone market. I don't see extra sales in the superpremium tier being a strong motivator. In India, iPhones are luxury goods, where the higher price makes them more attractive. The sort of person who can afford ~8x average monthly earnings for a phone can also afford a ~6x mult…

iPhone price in India is one of the highest anywhere in the world because of import duties. For a country obsessed with social status and a large upper middle class with increasing disposable income, a domestically manufactured cheaper iPhone will sell enough to make a real difference in Apple’s revenues.

Apple has no intention of diluting their brand by selling the same flagship phone cheap in India or anywhere else no matter the duty, their BOM is very very cheap, they can drop their price if they want to.

The would rather sell SE , refurbs, older gen for such markets, while this is better than nothing and has some traction , a 2-3 year old tech is perhaps not as attractive when it will still cost $500 and more when better offerings are there

Import duty is in 20-30% (just got hiked to 30 this year) range , while it is substantial making it zero will not change the market significantly in Apple’s favour given the massive price difference, no mainstream phone successfully sells at the 1500 price point the way only Apple can.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#236
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not in the 'top 10' things required to support an electronics manufacturing base. Africa is the last place any electronics are going to be made, and it's completely unsuitable to their situation, at least currently. Manufacturing any kind of electronics any scale requires a fair bit of sophistication. There is a lot of know how in putting together lines, knowing what to optimise, managing supply chains. I j…

I have to disagree with you on almost all points. I lived in East Africa for 20 years, and my observation of the African people was that their intelligence was similar to what you'd find anywhere in silicon valley. The problems you mentioned with financial services was solved way back in 1999 and rivals any mobile / cashless system anywhere else in the world, and that was long before things like square came out in th…

I love your aspirational and positive attitude.

"Other issues you mentioned such as electricity and water are the reason why you will find some of the most innovative people out there. Rather than complain about their inconvenient lack of opportunities, they think outside the box to achieve whatever they want to achieve."

I get it - if you don't have consistent electricity you 'innovate' and I admire that a lot. But I'm sorry - you're going to need consistent electricity to do many things. It's not a 'complaint'.

There's just no way around having basic infrastructure. Also - consider that a nation that cannot get consistent electricity obviously has some deep problems. So it's partly the 'lack of electricity' - but really, it's the 'problems that cause a nation to not be able to have electricity' - those are the real underlying problems.

That said, nowhere in East Africa is going to be making electronics in any capacity any time soon.

You should also consider thy on earth you would want to do that, as it's not really a natural advantage.

I live in Canada - and we don't make many electronics either! Because it's not suited to us.

Does your President/Prime Minister have political control of the Central Bank, and the large National banks, and can he use it to make massive strategic investments in certain technologies and use it for export financing?

Do you have an attractive enough economy that you can lure international investors, and then force them to hand over their IP? Do you have the depth of Engineering talent to take the plans for an advanced European rail system, copy them, make your own train system?

Do you have a malleable a population of professionals willing to work cheap, to be servile to others and say 'yes, yes, yes' no matter what, work 7 days a week and get it done no matter what? Those are strong words, but that's China for the last 30 years, working with them, they always say 'Yes', it's always cheap, and they move extremely quickly. The results are something else to talk about, but they have a very specific kind of attitude towards work, that for better or worse, works for them. They have a strong sense of nationalist vigour like right out of the 1950's.

So if you can't have enough foundational sophisticate to do electricity, let alone those things, then as you say, with an innovative attitude you can just do something other than electronics.

Much higher value and branded goods along the lines of what Africa is doing already, i.e. going 'up market' at least on some things. Exotic produce, processed, textiles, definitely tourism and of course agriculture, probably specialised.

Think of the economy like a pyramid. If you want to build higher, you have to have a wider, and more solid base. It would be a much higher ROI for any nation to establish competent civics (ie 'base') that it would to try to develop advanced foundries.

Last note: the elite in Africa is a problem, moreover, there is no 'professional class' of owners, artisans ie tradition of highly competent people doing complicated, industrious things handing down from generation to generation. Surely there was some of this, it's just adaptable to our current version of globalism.

China has had an established bureaucracy for thousands of years. So has Europe. Africa and 'mostly' South America have not, and that is the 'social pyramid' (of competency, not just power) which is necessary as well. Though there are some obvious things about that people find unfair, it's just as unavoidable.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#238
post #237

I'm surprised big companies haven't built up India to make it's own type of Shenzhen there. Seems like a huge investment by any forward looking metric. They already outsource a lot of software development.

Land acquisition in India is a grand legal process going into years and property rights are individual.

This is unlike major portions of China where the CCP can simply takeover land and property is leased out by the government on long term deals.

If India truly wants to become a leader, they need to cut red tape in everything but especially in flipping of property.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#239
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue anywhere is the foresight and tenacity of the political (ruling) class. They have to do things which are long term by cutting back on short term and populist decisions. That is one thing that is holding even India back. In democratic setup it is very difficult to take a long term view particularly when that comes with short term pain - the govt would be out in next election. Africa should learn both fr…

Actually Africa only has as much coastline as Europe despite being much larger. It has a high proportion of landlocked countries.

Technically, according to Cantor, every stretch of coastline has exactly as much as every other stretch of coastline ever.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#240
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue anywhere is the foresight and tenacity of the political (ruling) class. They have to do things which are long term by cutting back on short term and populist decisions. That is one thing that is holding even India back. In democratic setup it is very difficult to take a long term view particularly when that comes with short term pain - the govt would be out in next election. Africa should learn both fr…

> That is one thing that is holding even India back. In democratic setup it is very difficult to take a long term view particularly when that comes with short term pain - the govt would be out in next election. Africa should learn both from countries like China, Singapore... What do you mean, become autocratic/centralized/...or whatever other word you want to choose. That's a quick one way ticket to getting invaded a…

>What do you mean, become autocratic/centralized/...or whatever other word you want to choose. That's a quick one way ticket to getting invaded and thrown out by the US government.

The US government has no problems with autocratic governments, in fact they have propped many in the past. No, if you don't agree with them in economic terms they will invade. And there are plenty of excuses to go around, not that anyone cares anymore really. Iraq was supposed to have chemical weapons and everyone disliked Bush for that, but with Obama the US is at war in multiple countries with no visible excuse.

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