Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 288 posts

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#21

Post by totalZero »

As we increase the offshore footprint for manufacturing of devices consumed by Americans, we set ourselves up for a future where our national interests are far away, hard to defend, and subject to the whims of foreign nations. This is a strategic error.

India seems like a good counterbalance to China -- it is, after all, an adversary of China in the region. But that could change in 10 years.

Geography is important. Instead of diversifying away from our own continent, we should use the power of our consumer demand to establish high-tech manufacturing facilities in the poorer/cheaper reaches of our own continent.

We already saw the dangers of offshore production when COVID-19 hit and we were unable to provide basic necessities like patient masks and protective gowns. The lesson there is that far-away manufacturing is problematic when the global market experiences heavy shocks.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#22

Post by kodablah »

h0l0cube wrote: post #19
kodablah wrote: post #12

> With India’s labour cheaper compared with China, and the gradual expansion of its supplier base here, Apple will be able to use the country as an export hub While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies (albeit it slowly and not always agreeing with the politics of the newly-built middle classes). One might expect manufacturing in mid-Africa in two decades.

> While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies Let's be real about those negatives. It seems as though it's always just the next country in line taking it's turn to provide subsistence-wage labor. The likes of Steve Pinker may argue that living standards continue to trend upwards across the board, but it seems like people are just becoming more and more time-p…

> If we follow this pattern, once every country has lifted itself up by the bootstraps, the end-game would not be some poorer nations providing the subsistence-wage labour, but the poor population of each country providing subsistence-wage labour.

Nah, it's too politically unsafe to hire cheap in your own backyard and there'll always be country-level wage gaps on the bottom end, I'm just glad they're (slowly) reducing. No need attempting to run the simulation to a hypothetical end because there either is no end or it's unpredictable (could just as easily be a rise in extreme protectionist tariffs to discourage offshoring thereby re-widening the gap).

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#23

Post by pankajdoharey »

harshalizee wrote: post #11

I wonder if this will be the start of an Exodus of manufacturing away from China. Corporations are constantly under scrutiny with their brand messaging and signaling with respect to various conflicts involving China, Hong Kong and the unrest within the United States. India on the other hand, is a Democratic republic, might help alleviate some issues. If India plays its cards right, they may pave the way for a manufac…

Manufacturing is not just about cheap skilled labour it is about resources aswell. India lacks both cheap "skilled" labour and mineral resources. They do have low and unskilled labour in high numbers though. Also India is just about as democratic as Putins Russia.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#24

Post by xibalba »

totalZero wrote: post #21

As we increase the offshore footprint for manufacturing of devices consumed by Americans, we set ourselves up for a future where our national interests are far away, hard to defend, and subject to the whims of foreign nations. This is a strategic error. India seems like a good counterbalance to China -- it is, after all, an adversary of China in the region. But that could change in 10 years. Geography is important. I…

This assumes that low cost labor is the only necessary condition for an acceptable geography. Likely, it is not. Surely companies such as Apple, with their army of supply chain professionals, has given deep thought to many options, including and beyond what the armchair analysts here on HN can dream up in the 10 minutes this topic catches their fancy.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#25

Post by pankajdoharey »

throwaway4425 wrote: post #14
harshalizee wrote: post #11

I wonder if this will be the start of an Exodus of manufacturing away from China. Corporations are constantly under scrutiny with their brand messaging and signaling with respect to various conflicts involving China, Hong Kong and the unrest within the United States. India on the other hand, is a Democratic republic, might help alleviate some issues. If India plays its cards right, they may pave the way for a manufac…

I think this will depend on how much of an ally they are in the future. If they are seen as an economic threat, like Japan in the 80s, the media will probably start to report more on the atrocities committed in Kashmir along with the new Citizenship Law that appears to target or disadvantaged Muslims. Vietnam might he another alternative, but they are also a communist country, so the optics might not be better than C…

Believe it or not Capitalists love Communist countries as manufacturing hubs, they can circumvent labour laws, unions etc. Vietnam Is an ok destination for skilled labour but is hardly the resource heaven than China is.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#26

Post by blackoil »

bergstromm466 wrote: post #16
kodablah wrote: post #12

> With India’s labour cheaper compared with China, and the gradual expansion of its supplier base here, Apple will be able to use the country as an export hub While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies (albeit it slowly and not always agreeing with the politics of the newly-built middle classes). One might expect manufacturing in mid-Africa in two decades.

> I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies I really think we have to move to a Commons-based peer production paradigm. Ask yourself, would I want to work for Foxconn assembling $1k iPhones for meager pay? [1] And I am not asking you from a hypothetical standpoint where you pretend to be an Indian in the context of the country India. My question is: would you accept a job starting wo…

I work in a high paying plush job. I will also not work in fields growing crops, neither in a call center, not even in a software service company paying me meagre ₹35 lakh/a. But what doed that mean?

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#27

Post by 0xFFFE »

throwaway4425 wrote: post #14
harshalizee wrote: post #11

I wonder if this will be the start of an Exodus of manufacturing away from China. Corporations are constantly under scrutiny with their brand messaging and signaling with respect to various conflicts involving China, Hong Kong and the unrest within the United States. India on the other hand, is a Democratic republic, might help alleviate some issues. If India plays its cards right, they may pave the way for a manufac…

I think this will depend on how much of an ally they are in the future. If they are seen as an economic threat, like Japan in the 80s, the media will probably start to report more on the atrocities committed in Kashmir along with the new Citizenship Law that appears to target or disadvantaged Muslims. Vietnam might he another alternative, but they are also a communist country, so the optics might not be better than C…

It is appalling how despite the availability of information online, people still choose not to verify what they hear on the MSM. Here is the link to the Citizenship Amendment Act of 2019 on GOI website. It's only a 2 page document.

http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf

It was amended to accommodate persecuted minorities from *neighboring countries" of India. It has nothing to do with the Citizens of India.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#28

Post by pankajdoharey »

xibalba wrote: post #24
totalZero wrote: post #21

As we increase the offshore footprint for manufacturing of devices consumed by Americans, we set ourselves up for a future where our national interests are far away, hard to defend, and subject to the whims of foreign nations. This is a strategic error. India seems like a good counterbalance to China -- it is, after all, an adversary of China in the region. But that could change in 10 years. Geography is important. I…

This assumes that low cost labor is the only necessary condition for an acceptable geography. Likely, it is not. Surely companies such as Apple, with their army of supply chain professionals, has given deep thought to many options, including and beyond what the armchair analysts here on HN can dream up in the 10 minutes this topic catches their fancy.

Absolutely, manufacturing requires

1. Cheap Skilled Labour (India has unskilled labour because skilled abour is expensive in India)

2. Mineral Resource (India doesn't even have anthracite deposits for steel production) leave alone oil and other minerals for manufacturing.

3. India does have a good mix of software and other Engineers.

I think the best manufacturing countries for expansion out of china are African countries which do have Unskilled labour and Mineral resources. They can hire the rest from outside.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#29

Post by adventured »

throwaway4425 wrote: post #14
harshalizee wrote: post #11

I wonder if this will be the start of an Exodus of manufacturing away from China. Corporations are constantly under scrutiny with their brand messaging and signaling with respect to various conflicts involving China, Hong Kong and the unrest within the United States. India on the other hand, is a Democratic republic, might help alleviate some issues. If India plays its cards right, they may pave the way for a manufac…

I think this will depend on how much of an ally they are in the future. If they are seen as an economic threat, like Japan in the 80s, the media will probably start to report more on the atrocities committed in Kashmir along with the new Citizenship Law that appears to target or disadvantaged Muslims. Vietnam might he another alternative, but they are also a communist country, so the optics might not be better than C…

> Vietnam might he another alternative, but they are also a communist country, so the optics might not be better than China.

It's already a booming manufacturing alternative center to China. It's also a center of booming tech manufacturing. Samsung has invested a huge amount of money into factories there.

Their GDP has gone from $35 billion in 2003, to $261b in 2019. They've had one of the fastest growing economies for the past decade.

US imports from Vietnam have climbed from $14b in 2010, to $30b in 2014, to $66b in 2019. 371% increase in one decade. The US imports more from Vietnam than France ($57b) or the UK ($63b) now.

US exports to Vietnam by contrast are a mere $10b, so we're pouring an epic positive trade surplus (surplus for them) into the country. The same exact way China developed. US investment is going to build Vietnam into a middle income country in the span of 20 years. We'll probably soon have nearly a $100b trade deficit with Vietnam. If they keep on the right track, they'll develop very rapidly.

The Communism isn't a problem. The US wants Vietnam to develop so it can help be another strategic counter to China. The people of Vietnam also hold the highest opinion of the US of any people of any nation.[2] The US also doesn't have to worry about Vietnam becoming a superpower competitor, so they don't pose a China-like strategic threat. They're an excellent ally accordingly, we have many shared interests.

"40 years after fall of Saigon, Vietnamese see U.S. as key ally"

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/30/vietnamese-...

"84% of Vietnamese people view the US favorably"

[2] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2017/06/26/tarnished-amer...

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#30

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Serious question: Modern manufacturing, especially for things like electronics, is highly automated and increasingly so. That implies you don't need a lot of labor to do it and what you do need is skilled labor anyway. Lower unskilled labor costs don't seem like a huge advantage there. So what's still keeping it in countries like China and India and not e.g. Minnesota, which would yield a PR advantage and lower transportation costs?

I can think of a few reasons in the nature of China devaluing their currency or other countries ignoring pollution, but these seem like illegitimate reasons. They're not a true advantage of China or India, they're perfidious regulatory arbitrage and a failure of US policy to punish cheating or impose the same environmental standards on all manufactured goods sold in the US regardless of country of origin.

So are those the only reasons (to which plausible yet unimplemented solutions exist), or is there something else we have to fix?

Post reply on HN