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Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

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Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#111

Post by asguy »

gshulegaard wrote: post #94
cwhiz wrote: post #57

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

Ok hold up. I actually live in Portland. There is definitely underplaying of the criminal activity going on by the media, but these are NOT riots. Now I am not sympathetic to those who claim that Police aren't justified in declaring many of these unlawful gatherings, but I am also not sympathetic to those calling it riots. What is actually happening from my local perspective is that there are mostly peaceful protests…

> So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best.

I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks. I'd call them riots. I've seen with my own eyes, both sides shooting munitions at each other. Property is being destroyed. People are being assaulted.

This [0] happened last night. These videos have become so common over the past month, they're turning into the norm. I was woken up at 1:30 am this morning listening to PPB giving rioters a 5 minute warning to vacate before they start applying force. It's out of hand. I'm not surprised at all that the Feds have come in to defend Federal property and restore order.

[0] - https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1284384833653731334

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#113

Post by beervirus »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #105
beervirus wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time a 10th amendment argument won the day? Like 200 years ago?

Last time I checked, the fed doesn't have policing power, only states do. This is a huge overstep of states rights.

That’s the plenary “police power” you’re thinking of, and it has a lot more to do with the constitutionality of legislation than with actual police work. It doesn’t mean that federal officers can never engage in police-like activities.

See, e.g., the FBI.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#115

Post by itsoktocry »

jorblumesea wrote: post #104
itsoktocry wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They never cared about preserving freedoms, American democracy or the values that this country stands for. I disagree, they do care about personal liberty and safety. If you are infringing on their rights, you aren't an ally. > They never believed it in the first place, or their interpretation is so skewed it's meaningless. This argument is so backwards it's hard for me to grasp. You have people saying "Ban guns! B…

> If you are infringing on their rights, you aren't an ally. Then they never cared about the values they hold dear. If you believe in "Freedoms" but those freedoms are entirely selective based on political ideology or convenience you believe in nothing. The constitution has no "rights whenever you feel like it" clause. > "where are the people with guns to defend us???" I'm actually not saying that at all. I'm not ask…

>The exact same behavior that the 2nd amendment proponents literally said that's why they own guns.

This is about personal liberty.

When the secret police come for them, they will defend themselves with their guns. That's why they (claim to) own guns. Nobody buys guns to defend their right to own guns; they buy them to defend their own person and property.

The fact that someone else fights to take away their guns and then doesn't have guns themselves to defend against government overreach, well...how is that their problem?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#116

Post by alexose »

cwhiz wrote: post #57

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

These are absolutely not violent riots. They are organized protests with specific demands, and are generally supported by the people who live here.

If we're being honest, then we should recall the way CHOP in Seattle was characterized by the right as some sort of Mad Max murder hellscape, and how that bore virtually no resemblance to what was happening. We should consider how this movement may be similarly misrepresented by conservative voices to present a vision of the left-leaning Pacific Northwest as somehow "out of control".

But regardless of the protests, we have militarized federal agents patrolling the streets of a city where they are not welcomed by city or state leadership. It should scare the shit out of everybody. I stand with Mayor Wheeler and city leadership in wishing they would leave.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#117

Post by gshulegaard »

asguy wrote: post #111
gshulegaard wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok hold up. I actually live in Portland. There is definitely underplaying of the criminal activity going on by the media, but these are NOT riots. Now I am not sympathetic to those who claim that Police aren't justified in declaring many of these unlawful gatherings, but I am also not sympathetic to those calling it riots. What is actually happening from my local perspective is that there are mostly peaceful protests…

> So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best. I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks. I'd call them riots. I've seen with my own eyes, both sides shooting munitions at each other. Property is being destroyed. People are being assaulted. This [0] h…

> I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks

Neat, I also live 5 blocks away from the Edith Green - Wendell Wyatt Federal Building.

And what I said is that there is violence going on and PPD has been trying to walk the line of declaring unlawful gatherings while respecting freedom of assembly for the majority who are non-violent. I am fine with Federal agents defending Federal property; I am not ok with Federal agents using unmarked vans to leave Federal property and snatch suspects.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#118

Post by cwhiz »

chance_state wrote: post #96
cwhiz wrote: post #57

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

Any thoughts on the secret police snatching Americans off the streets and disappearing them? Or mostly just mad about rioting?

Read the article and dial back the absurd hyperbole.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#120

Post by crocodiletears »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #100
crocodiletears wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> a town that gave stand-down orders to its police force so that the local antifa chapter could enact political violence on its opponents Do you have a source for any of this? It seems really far-fetched.

Wheeler himself has denied it to be the case, however police actions and statements have strongly hinted it to be the case.

I believe right-wing media vastly blows the degree to-which this policy is in effect. The washington Times cites an incident where the police involve themselves at moments of mutual violence, but conducted no arrests. Portland's been a flashpoint for extremist violence for years.

2018: https://washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/14/ted-wheeler-por...

2019, more explicitly, via the president of the Portland Police Association: https://katu.com/news/local/mayor-wheeler-portland-police-as...

"It’s time for our Mayor to do two things: tell both ANTIFA and Proud Boys that our City will not accept violence in our City and remove the handcuffs from our officers and let them stop the violence through strong and swift enforcement action. Enough is enough."

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