Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#251

Post by dvdhnt » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #228

DenisM wrote: post #219

The Los Angelos teachers added a few other requests [1]. The introduction starts with: [...] LAUSD educators clearly want to get back into schools with their students, but the underlying question at every step must be: Given broader societal conditions, how do we open physical schools in a way that ensures that the benefit outweigh the risks [...] And then proceeds to the following recommendations, among many others:…

I don't understand the logic around the left's hatred of charters. Parents choose to send their kids there - if the existing public school was so good, why would they send them somewhere else? It's simply about choice, and sending your own kids to the best possible option. No one would ever deny their own children the best possible education available. It's so clearly about administrators and professionals over the n…

In many states, almost anyone can establish a charter school and there is very little oversight. Money is diverted from already small budgets to these charter schools.

Additionally, the US system punishes underperforming schools by deallocating funds. In what world does that make sense? Any rational society would send in an educational SWAT team to lift the school up, not handicap it further.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#252

Post by thephyber » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #220

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Given the (very popular) laws against price gauging, it seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks. Production capacity is available, but at a higher cost than is currently economical. All that being said, your second point seems correct to me…

> If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks.

Those aren't the only options. Some mask manufacturers could scale up manufacturing as long as they had a medium/long term contract to make the investment worth it. The current administration keeps blaming the previous one for drawing down on the federal PPP supply without replenishing it (dubious claim), so there was exactly zero reason for this[1] to happen.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-the-early-d...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#253

Post by vb6sp6 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #220

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Given the (very popular) laws against price gauging, it seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks. Production capacity is available, but at a higher cost than is currently economical. All that being said, your second point seems correct to me…

> seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks

This doesn't have to be complicated: We can subsidize masks.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#254

Post by chrisseaton » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

hydroxideOH- wrote: post #246

seibelj wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the logic around the left's hatred of charters. Parents choose to send their kids there - if the existing public school was so good, why would they send them somewhere else? It's simply about choice, and sending your own kids to the best possible option. No one would ever deny their own children the best possible education available. It's so clearly about administrators and professionals over the n…

People don't appreciate how money is diverted from already underfunded public schools to charter schools.

Isn't it the same funding per student?

The money is diverted from the public schools to the charter schools... because the student has moved from a public school to a charter school.

Or is that wrong?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#255

Post by gruez » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #200

enraged_camel wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the federal government we have is the result of our outdated, quirky and flawed electoral system, where the votes of certain states are much more valuable than others.

The system you describe only applies to Presidential elections. The federal government is a lot more than just the President, and so are its problems.

Also applies to senators, and to a small extent house of representatives.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#256

Post by dvdhnt » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #250

seibelj wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the logic around the left's hatred of charters. Parents choose to send their kids there - if the existing public school was so good, why would they send them somewhere else? It's simply about choice, and sending your own kids to the best possible option. No one would ever deny their own children the best possible education available. It's so clearly about administrators and professionals over the n…

Anti-charter sentiment is a union (teacher union) protecting itself. The left is along for the ride, because it's the same "tribe", but this is 100% driven by an organization protecting itself against competition.

Even if that is a cause, so? But the real issues revolve around a lack of oversight, small budgets, corruption, and exclusionary practices that hurt already marginalized groups.

Edit: "your mask is slipping" isn't a productive characterization. What I meant was, your statement comes off as bias - "tribes", "the left", "protecting itself against competition" all scream pro-capitalist propaganda on a topic that, frankly, should stay as far away from capitalism as possible.

That's my interpretation of your remarks and I am well aware that my own biases may distort your message.

But typically, when someone introduces "competition" to a discussion on education and laments teach unions, they have an agenda. Again, I could easily be wrong.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#257

Post by bpodgursky » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

tgv wrote: post #174

tomohawk wrote: post #119

In Iceland, they did extensive testing, and genetic tracing of infections. Children infecting other children was extremely rare. In almost all cases, it was adults infecting them. There was only a single case of a child infecting an adult. https://www.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/blog/hunting-down-covi... Now that we have actual experience with the disease, hospitalization rates for children with covid is 5x lower than…

Iceland, of course, has only 360.000 inhabitants.

Yes... that's why it was easy to do the tracing.

What other point do you think this makes?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#258

Post by diogenescynic » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:49 PM UTC

Oxx wrote: post #189

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

Good. The current state of the world is incredibly unnatural when you compare it to even 50 years ago. Everything is too connected. We are so much more efficient, but so much more fragile. The best thing you can do to save the world is save yourself and your family. Less fragility, more robustness at the personal / local level. I am mid twenties, and was homeschooled my entire childhood. My father owned a technology…

I don't think homeschooling is usually like you're describing. Most of the people I have met who were homeschooled were not social adjusted or developed and didn't seem 'normal' by most standards. Most of them had parents who were either extremely religious or some other ideological tendency (survivalist, etc).

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#259

Post by aerostable_slug » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:49 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #154

engineer_22 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. I think the major problem is there is not a compelling childcare alternative that's ready to take over if the schools don't open. I also think it's a "tale of two cities". There's a lot of political will to reopen the schools in rural areas that haven't been as deeply impacted by the virus itself. And rightly so - the risk in rural upstate New York is much lower than in Flushing, Queens. It's probably wisest t…

I'm already having friends with kids call to see if we can do co-ops where 3-4 kids go to a single home and do online school. By limiting the families, you limit exposure, and solve the child care and socialization problem at the same time.

A friend is doing something similar, except in person: a teacher from the private school his daughter attends/attended has entered into an agreement with some parents. His daughter will go to school with a few classmates and her teacher, doing the curriculum she was supposed to be doing, just offsite.

Everyone involved has to be COVID-19 tested and they are taking as many sensible precautions as they can. I realize this isn't an option for many, but if you can get on board with a good teacher it's win-win. Note that my friend is very vigilant about not spreading the bug — he's not an antimask type at all. It seems like a great option if it's possible.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#260

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:49 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #158

war1025 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crystal clear that the US is doing something wrong. And if that's the reality, then we need to figure out how to move forward from there. We can't go back to March and convince everyone to do a better job of shelter in place. We followed all the rules in my family. It was, in my opinion, a waste of time. I'm not going to hide in a hole for fear of the damn boogey man for the next three years.

> We can't go back to March and convince everyone to do a better job of shelter in place. Apparently it's impossible to convince Americans to do a better job of anything. So "moving forward from here" is going to be just as incompetent and half-assed as shelter in place was. Apparently no one in power has learned a thing, hence this article.

It's not just those in power. Too few people in the populace learned that they really needed to follow heath guidelines like this was serious. Without that, the people in power can't do too much.

And why do many people not take the guidelines seriously? Partly it's because of the fumbling and incompetent response to Covid, but it's not just that. Government/political leadership has been setting their credibility on fire for a decade or several. (To be clear: It's not just this president, it's not just this administration, and it's not just one party.) They've been too busy trying to win at political trench warfare to actually govern, and the people have noticed. Too often, neither reason nor competence have been on display. So when it actually matters, nobody is willing to listen to the politically-driven clown show, because it's probably just more of the same. (And, to some degree, it was.)

So "moving forward" will require rebuilding trust in government. People need to trust that policy will be competent and (at least in something like this) not set by politics. That's going to take a decade or several to rebuild.