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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#201

Post by hosh »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #172
eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

Not sure where you're from, but in many places, "society and government" has not failed people the same way it has in the US. Even within the US there are some places where local and state government have performed much better than places like Florida or NYC. That is to say, the problem is not, conceptually, "society and government", but instead, the American society and American government we have today. Don't give…

It's my conclusion that the system has failed as well, and it comes from things that are intrinsic to the system itself. Our civilization and systems are set up for failure. When "success" and "wealth" is determined by how much resources you can extract from the land and people, and how much control over access to those resources, it incentivized centralization and control over basic necessities. This would be food, water, shelter, warmth and clothing. Every one of those require money and participation in the economy. There is no fixing it, as every single possibility moves us towards eventual collapse.

The alternative is having the basic needs (food, water, shelter, warmth, clothing) be met by being a participant in the ecology. Where these things can be provided through decentralized means as part of regenerative processes. When these things are provided by regenerative cycles, families can live off of that across many generations provided that they are wise stewards of the land. This is better than Universal Basic Income. You can't eat money, and UBI still relies on the fragile global supply chain to meet basic needs.

Furthermore, because these systems are decentralized, it does not require collective action. It does not require organizing, or fighting against the system. It does not require waiting for leaders to Do Something About It. It is more like letting the weeds grow. Pioneering into depleted soil with tenacity and resilience. It requires a mindset shift, and connecting with the local ecology and local community.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#202

Post by tathougies »

leetrout wrote: post #57
cheerlessbog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does she work that pays $30k for an experienced teacher? Teacher pay sucks

My wife has worked in rural TN and NC and my mom was a speech language pathologist for 30+ years in KY. Pretty much everywhere rural starts under $40k (or under $30k in some cases) and stays under $40k for 5-10 years of experience.

Rural areas are significantly cheaper.

For example tennessee's median home price is $164k, which means $40k is 1/4 the price of a new home.

Meanwhile, California's median home price is $533k and the average teacher's salary is 49k - 84k, making it 1/10 - 1/6 the price of a new home

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#204

Post by lozaning »

hysan wrote: post #137
leetrout wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is a teacher so I understand the situation intimately. I do not see how saying "no one is allowed to wear as mask" as a policy is OK when someone can provider their own PPE.

I get it too. I used to teach, albeit in a different country. Several of my aunts, uncles, and cousins are teachers too. My answer was more geared towards everyone else who had the same question you had but can't see how upper management would logically justify such a response. The crux of your question, though, is an ethical one and I think everyone knows the answer - it's not OK. Sadly, money often trumps ethics in…

My god thinks mouths and noses are ugly, hideous things that must not be seen. As such our religious cannon/traditions require the wearing of masks over the mouth and nose at all times.

Join us @ Maskbeterian.org (I only bought the domain today, give me a minute to stand up a shitty wordpress site)

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#205

Post by jointpdf »

leetrout wrote: post #111
MarcScott wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical staff get to wear PPE. As for grocery workers: My wife's a teacher. She was back in school for a day last week, with a much smaller class of children. The first thing one of her children tried to do on seeing her was give her a hug. I doubt this happens to many grocery workers. In September she'll spend about six hours a day in a poorly ventilated and inadequately sized classroom with 30 children. Neither she…

> poorly ventilated and inadequately sized classroom BINGO. That's what has bothered me the most and I've talked a lot to my wife about what we can do to mitigate the risk. > Neither she nor the children are allowed to wear masks or gloves How is that enforceable? Seems like they shouldn't be allowed to mandate no masks given the documented health risks.

This isn’t going to solve the problem entirely, but what about moving most instruction to the outdoors? Is this being considered anywhere?

I went to a private school for 1st+2nd grade (this is Michigan, in the 90s), and we were allowed to roam around unsupervised in the woods during recess. That includes the dead of winter. We built forts out of tree branches, constructed igloos and snow tunnel, etc. Occasionally we did outdoor lessons, like making a to-scale model of the solar system.

I’m not suggesting those activities necessarily, but it seems to me that there is the possibility of moving outdoors for a significant portion of the day. Even in the absence of a lesson plan, kids still get the benefit of social interaction, experiential learning, etc.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#206

Post by ashtonkem »

collegecamp293 wrote: post #80
devalgo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? There are hundreds of nurses and doctors who have gotten sick and that's when wearing full PPE. Do you think teachers and kids are going to be wearing PPE in class?? This is a troll comment.

What are the odds of a nurse and doctor with full PPE dying from COVID?

Proper, full PPE? Low. Proper PPE requires diligence and training, but for medical professionals it’s pretty reasonable to expect them to wear it correctly.

The issue is that “proper PPE” is a bad assumption in America. Normally PPE is one time use stuff; you’re supposed to destroy the N95 after use. But we don’t have nearly enough of the stuff, so doctors have been reusing them for a while. This increases the risk of it failing, which is a huge issue if you’re going to interact with known COVID positive patients.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#207

Post by rpiguy »

coldcode wrote: post #51
engineer_22 wrote: post #11

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Whether we like it or not we're going with the Sweden Model. I've got school age kids myself, and I understand the risk. This is going to be a situation that could become hard to manage but our society's economy is constructed in such a way that relies on daytime programming for children and teens outside of their home. The teachers are going to have to help bear the…

Are you willing to die for the economy? Ask your kids, are they OK with you dying so that money can be made, maybe collect on some life insurance money? Are you OK with your kids potentially dying (rare but not zero) just to keep them busy during the day? I bet not.

Yes. And there are many millions of unafraid people. Doesn't mean they aren't cautious, but they understand risk.

Children have a higher chance of dying in a car accident, are you going to stop driving tomorrow, because you know a non-zero chance of dying is all you will accept.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#208

Post by fullshark »

AlexandrB wrote: post #161
engineer_22 wrote: post #11

It's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Whether we like it or not we're going with the Sweden Model. I've got school age kids myself, and I understand the risk. This is going to be a situation that could become hard to manage but our society's economy is constructed in such a way that relies on daytime programming for children and teens outside of their home. The teachers are going to have to help bear the…

You sound resigned to your fate. When did Americans become accustomed to accepting utter incompetence that costs hundreds of thousands of lives from their leadership? Is the political process down there completely broken?

What other alternative is there though? We have selected the worst of both worlds, shut down our economy and failed to contain the virus.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#209

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US.

I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look how many heavy military vehicles the US managed to build during WWII, and then consider we can't even build masks of sufficient quantity.

And this just follows an ever growing set of problems that the US has just oddly accepted without the political will to do anything, things like our totally f'd healthcare system, mass shootings, climate change, etc.

I disagree, though, with the sibling comment that says "Don't give up! Don't withdraw!" It's not like there aren't other functioning societies in the world that are way less broken than the US. Staying behind in some mythical "fight" is just misplaced patriotism IMO. There are other countries that live the ideals that I used to associate with America (real freedom, upward mobility, democracy, rule of law, etc.) much better than the US does these days.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#210

Post by dragontamer »

doopy-loopy2 wrote: post #34
leetrout wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong statement: dumb kids are better than dead kids.

Deaths in children are essentially 0

My niece was born with a defective kidney. Her chances of dialysis grows with every infection... and COVID19 has been shown to cause long-term damage to kidneys and livers.

I'd expect my niece to survive COVID19 if she got it. But I'd also expect her to get significant kidney damage and possibly dialysis as a result. Every UTI she gets results in an emergency room visit under normal circumstances. We've been lucky enough that she hasn't had anything this year, but... she's definitely not someone we'd want to see COVID19 infect.

Not everyone's kids are 100% healthy out there. Keep that in mind. There are mutations out there that are completely silent and hidden, and we try to keep these little facts inside the family.

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