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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#341

Post by filoleg »

sudosysgen wrote: post #264
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the risk is real. Imagine the US made phones for Russia during the Cold War, and the phones were so complicated and full of microcontrollers that reverse engineering and ensuring that a backdoor wasn't in place was impossible. Do you really think the US wouldn't have taken advantage of that? The specific technical risk is unknown, though. There are thousands of microcontrollers in a modern advanced electronic de…

The phones have access to the raw data. The towers shouldn't have access to the raw data, because presumably it's encrypted. If it isn't, it's game over anyways. Not really comparable. You could make an argument about metadata, which is much more questionable from the get-go.

I think the parent comment wasn't talking about intercepting traffic and being able to know what your enemy is talking about.

The parent comment was talking about being able to take advantage of the situation by making the enemy use your devices and then incapacitating their infrastructure at the perfect moment by activating the killswitch on those devices.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#342

Post by Larrikin »

jaekash wrote: post #144
dsomers wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a fifteen year old can be put into prison for years in some U.S. states for some weed it hardly makes makes the U.S. look like it values human rights. It’s more akin to the U.S. being ‘the skinniest kid in fat camp.’ Congratulations on being better than China and Saudi Arabia I guess...

> When a fifteen year old can be put into prison for years in some U.S. states for some weed it hardly makes makes the U.S. look like it values human rights. Would like to see some examples of this, and numbers of this. I really doubt this is widespread. And further, if it does happen, it would have to get through prosecutors, jury, governors, etc - all of who will completely eaten alive by the press if the kid could…

There were judges that were convicted of sending black kids to for profit prisons they held stock in. Believing there isn't systemic racism in the prosecutorial system at this point is the same as believing there isn't systemic racism in policing. Just because you aren't personally affected doesn't mean a problem isn't wide spread.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand and was another whataboutism off shoot from the main topic.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#343

Post by adventured »

chrischen wrote: post #309
advanced-DnD wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative where criticizing the CCP or that Pooh will end you up in jail? An alternative where China claim my country's ocean, far from its Mainland? No thank you. Stop pushing "China is victim of bully" or "China is here to save you from evil West" rhetoric.

China claiming your ocean is exactly the same political power clashing as US claiming UK’s 5G networks.

No it's not. The US isn't claiming the UK's 5G networks. The alternative solution providers such as Samsung, Ericsson and Nokia are not US companies.

China is using its military to forcibly steal territory the size of France from neighboring nations. That territory does not belong to China.

The US can rightfully sanction any nation that uses its technology and its currency. Those things belong to the US. The sea territory that China is stealing does not belong to it.

Other nations do not have to obey US sanctions. They're free to abandon all US technology and abandon the US dollar and its banking structures. Go for it.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#344

Post by chillacy »

_zamorano_ wrote: post #267
yifanlu wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez as a Chinese person who lives in USA I find this comment very condescending and offensive. > But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democracy, and so on. I don’t want to get into a whataboutism debate about all the human rights violations the USA has engaged in (yes Trump but Obama as well and W before him and etc). But real…

Hypocrisy. Looks good to exibit tolerancy between like minded friends about accepted topics, abortion, sexual orientation, skin color and the like... But about a different political system other than western liberal democracy? No way! And it's not like Chinas Communist Party (from Deng Xiaopin on) has not good credentials. It might be the more succesfull regime in the history of humanity if we talk about taking peopl…

> What are the signs that the Chinese want to export their way of life? Any recent war launched by China? Any attempt to force a Western goverment to accept their condicions?

There are two distinct reasons I see:

1. Some people read recent actions like "investing in a deepwater navy", "setting up economic relations with Africa", and "forcing trading partners to not recognize Taiwan" as doing exactly those things.

2. Even if you ignore those things, if you believe the western powers have done these things already in the 20th century like "investing in a huge carrier fleet and naval bases around the world", "setting up colonies and promoting democracy around the world, sometimes through force", and "forcing trading partners into labor standards including pay and hours, bundled into a package we call human rights", then it's probably easier to assume others are capable of doing similar.

At that point it's a clash of values.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#345

Post by _jgdh »

blibble wrote: post #311
_jgdh wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it needs to find allies No shortage of Chinese allies - 70+ countries supported China's recent change to Hong Kong's laws ( https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1193422.shtml ). Certainly none of these countries are bastions of freedom - North Korea, Venezuela, Chad, Myanmar, Cambodia, Kyrgyzstan. But all of them support China to the hilt. Tanzania didn't even stop with an endorsement of the HK law, they also felt it…

> That's why China can screw over every neighbour, taking what they please. Who's going to stop them? Is Vietnam or Malaysia suddenly going to stand up to China? No, they will merely grumble. ah yes, exactly the same logic that resulted in World War 2

The world is much more inter-connected than it was then. The cost of a war with China is orders of magnitude more than the cost of a war with Germany. In fact, for the first several months of WWII, British and French citizens barely noticed the war.

War with China would be extremely painful, every single item that modern life depends upon apart from food will suddenly become scarce. That acts as a powerful deterrent.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#346

Post by chopin »

CodesInChaos wrote: post #322

If the protocols used for mobile networks were designed to be secure, most of the infrastructure couldn't do anything worse than a DoS attack. It'd still need some trusted servers for key management, but those could be standard hardware with relatively simple software.

How would that be in the interest of any government? Even in the most liberal democracies (I know of) there is a strong surveillance tendency.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#347

Post by jialutu »

gspr wrote: post #282
einpoklum wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now imagine a society where every dissident is treated like Assange, and every poor nobody is treated like the Grenfell tower residents The British colonies over the years? Possibly Britain itself as far as the treatment of poor nobodies. Look, China's a repressive regime, but: (1.) A bit less so than it's described by Western media, and (2.) Britain and the US are not categorically different, they're just, well, d…

> The British colonies over the years? Sure. I don't see anyone here defending that in this thread. > Possibly Britain itself as far as the treatment of poor nobodies. Currently? Are you serious? > Look, China's a repressive regime, but: (1.) A bit less so than it's described by Western media, "Western media" is such a large set as to be meaningless. If you mean the mainstream media, please provide an example of two…

> please provide an example of two of where they claim China is more oppressive than it actually is

I'll give you one. Pretty much every single mainstream media basically says religion is banned in China. However to my detriment, every time I go back to China to visit my paternal grandma (who is a catholic), I get asked to go to Sunday mass with her. So, where is religion banned in China? Let me know your thoughts about this, do you think religion is banned in China?

> adversarial justice systems

You do realise that "adversarial justice systems" only pretty much exist in Common Law countries right? Whereas Civil Law countries don't use an adversarial system, which is pretty much the legal system of the whole of the EU and pretty much all of Asia including China. I've even read arguments from British barristers that the adversarial system can be an inferior system. I mean, the adversarial justice system certainly didn't do too well for the incarceration rate of black people in America now did it?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#348

Post by m3kw9 »

5 years serves 2 things, one is to show UK is with their partner US and two, 5 years is a long time for a punishment to be effective because so much policies can change(2 elections) during this, and China knows this isn’t really a big punishment.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#349

Post by blackrock »

chrischen wrote: post #302
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your questions aren't about telecoms hardware, but about politics and the international flow of power. China is slated to take over the world economically. Their political model has the potential to spread around the world. These are attempts to limit China's capacity to grow as fast while inhibiting their capacity to knock out, intercept, or backdoor critical infrastructure.

Frankly their political model is already spreading, since blocking foreign companies from local markets, mass surveillance, extra-legal imprisonment of suspected terrorists, war on encryption, is something the US has been more and more adopting.

Are you trying to describe China here, or the United States?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#350

Post by pqhwan »

stephenheron wrote: post #87

I would encourage people to read the NCSC blog post on this as it goes into technical detail on why the decision was made. https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/a-different-future-for-tel...

Effectively US is pulling US-made chip design tools from under huawei’s manufacturing process. Seems that the political calculus is that this will damage huawei’s standing, at the expense of global technological cooperation. But to what end? It falls short of providing Huawei (and the state behind it) with incentives to be more transparent with their technology, and at best creates a necessity for them to become wholly independent in their process. I guess the US is betting they can’t pull this off, but if they do, this policy has bought US nothing but a few years of suppression and a fiercer competition.
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