Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027 • Hacker News Board

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#161

Post by jaekash » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #59

est31 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world. They'd want to expand just as they want to expand now. Just look at the various western colonial empires of history. Many of them were democracies in some form or fashion. Any long term resolution to the conflict has t…

Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders. Unlike the cold war days, there's no race to convert countries to Communism or Democracy. China's main mode of interaction with other countries is through trade, it doesn't play the game of political/ideological proselytism. If democracy loses ground around the world, that's due more to it's own…

> Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders.

If it was not for china North Korea and possibly Pakistan would not have had nuclear weapons now. So no, it is not just in it's own borders.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#162

Post by chosenbreed37 » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

Honest question. Can someone explain why the comment below was flagged? I can see why some might disagree but I fail to see any problematic about any of the statements made. I think of HN as one of the few places were people can have open discussions where everyone is free to state their opinion and have it up for debate/rebuttal.

"I disagree. Reports about China from many western media tend to exaggerate things about China, mostly influenced by western politics, not good at all. Also, western media tend to report selective facts to only show things they want people to hear and see. The right to life is the first clause of human right, which I see they are violated in many western countries. They refuse to treat the poor and old. Do you hear China criticise? Maybe they are, but for sure western media choose not to report them.

Freedom of speech is a relative term in today’s world. I can say some of the things you shouldn’t say in China are equally not welcomed in many western countries. If you split US, see how many troubles could come to you?

On democracy, I’m not sure what to comment. China has ran 4000 years under one empire system, and it’s just the culture there. Why democratic society is better than the 1 party system? What’s more important is to have the party represent people’s interests. In many democratic countries, each party represents the interests from certain groups, that’s why it’s necessity to have multiple parties perhaps. The downsides to democratic system is also quite obvious. There are countless debate on many small matters which waste tax payer’s money etc.. Also, the democracy can be manipulated, and if it is the case, it’s worse."

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#163

Post by jaekash » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #50

hrktb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a EU/UK perspective there’s no good coming from it. It’s like being caught in a fight between your drunk uncle and your berserk cousin.

There is definitely good coming out of it for the EU. Europe does not have to align with either side. It is a superpower in its own right if it gets its shit together (one can dream).

> Europe does not have to align with either side.

Let's hope Europe makes the moral choice here though and aligns against China.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#164

Post by jaekash » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:33 PM UTC

orwin wrote: post #149

ceilingcorner wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the fact that one is a totalitarian state and the other is an ally?

But for at least Portugal and Greece, and maybe Italy and some eastern European countries, the ally is china since 2014? While Obama made his move over SE Asia, the CCP applied the strategy they used in Australia with the PIGS. And while Trump very successfully destroyed what Obama tried to do in SE Asia, the CCP installed foreign military bases near center of trade in the Indian ocean while gaining political goodwil…

> But for at least Portugal and Greece, and maybe Italy and some eastern European countries, the ally is china since 2014?

Maybe financially, but not ideologically. Not sure how far this "allegiance will hold".

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#165

Post by totalZero » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:34 PM UTC

Waterfall wrote: post #148

totalZero wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing one of the largest risk vectors in the whole 5G game. 5G operates on higher frequency and requires a larger density of base stations. If you can identify individual devices -- even without cracking the encryption they use -- then you can track them them geographically, and also conduct traffic analysis. 5G presents a potential security risk because it allows far greater granularity of device localizati…

I don't know if I want 5G. It sounds like wimax but faster. I don't think it gives that much benefit, triangulation already was able to bomb a terrorist in Russia in the 90s. How much worst could it get?

My understanding is that the difference between 5G density/localization and that of previous technologies is quite substantial, especially in urban areas.

"The extension of spectrum range has an impact on the network architecture. mmwave cells will employ shorter ranges of around 100-to-200 meters which will require extreme densification to provide high coverage. 3G networks reached densities of fourto- five base stations per km², 4G networks eight-to-ten per km², while 5G networks could reach densities of 40-to-50 per km²."

https://www.newtec.eu/article/article/choosing-the-right-con...

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#166

Post by jaekash » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:34 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #124

stephenheron wrote: post #87

I would encourage people to read the NCSC blog post on this as it goes into technical detail on why the decision was made. https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/a-different-future-for-tel...

So at least park of the justification here is that we have to comply with Americas foreign policy?

Sometimes USA still manages to do the right thing it seems.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#167

Post by tlear » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:35 PM UTC

einpoklum wrote: post #56

room271 wrote: post #9

This kind of thing is going to play out a lot over the next few years. It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. But China, while increasingly mature economically, has not developed proper civil society, human rights, freedom of expression, democr…

"Proper civil society and human rights" - like the ones afforded to Julian Assange? Or the treatment of the Grenfell tower victims' families? Glass houses etc.

Now imagine after you posted your comment some men bust down your door take you in, torture you. Not some sleep depravation, but hammer to your knees and electrodes to your testicles. See difference? Oh and yeah nobody will ever see you again, cause well you are just gone.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#168

Post by Nursie » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:36 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #155

rashkov wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your first point, yes, that’s an interesting take. Regarding the criticism of the US, yes you’re probably correct, but this is a “what about” argument that doesn’t really aid the discussion in my opinion.

Whataboutism gets brought out too fast to dismiss discussion. Democratic systems project their values by demonstrating them. A democratic state that cannot show that its values work will have no ability to demand of others to emulate it. In that context the failures of the US (as it is de-facto the standard-bearer of political liberalism in a broad sense), have real influence. When the Chinese look around the world a…

[flagged]

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#169

Post by andylynch » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:36 PM UTC

krona wrote: post #26

gberger wrote: post #4

The justification is that the equipment presents a national security risk. If that's true, how is it reasonable to allow this equipment to operate in the UK for 7 more years? Doesn't that mean the UK is willingly under national security risk for 7 years? Unless, of course, there was never a security risk...

Many things represent a national security risk. Switching off the equipment overnight, I would argue, also represents a risk to national security.

That is exactly what BT have been saying. Moreover they rightly point out that losing access to software updates due to US sanctions is a security risk in its own right too.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#170

Post by londons_explore » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:36 PM UTC

jaekash wrote: post #152

And we already know China has been backdooring other equipment: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h... So yes, this is a small victory in a massive war.

The cost of that victory, according to the BBC, is a 1 year delay in the rollout of 5G tech.

That's a pretty large economic cost. Bob can't watch his medical lectures on the train, so ends up behind in class, Mary's company looses a contract to a foreign competitor because she got frustrated with her bad VPN and didn't read over the bid one last time, Fred couldn't afford the cost of the new 5G contracts so didn't get much data and ended up losing touch with his friends who were all group video calling eachother.

All these socio-economic costs cascade for decades or more. Do they really outweigh the theoretical ability for another nation to disrupt network traffic for a few hours until a mitigation is put in place?