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Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

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Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#101

Post by gliese1337 »

mr_toad wrote: post #39
tialaramex wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's not controversial for Britain to offer them citizenship then it shouldn't be for US either China objects strongly. It says these are Chinese citizens and Britain ceased to have any claim over the territory decades ago. Of course since Britain's offer exists only on paper (there is no mechanism proposed by which a typical person in Hong Kong should actually make use of the offer to leave) the Chinese objecti…

Unless China proposes to keep its own citizens prisoners there’s not much it can do to stop them taking up the offer.

Which it has been known to do....

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#102

Post by ryanlol »

jussij wrote: post #32
Ericson2314 wrote: post #11

I hope this doesn't get ugly when people try to actually leave. On the bright side, I wonder what good things this will do for the UK. I doubt many of these people will vote Torry.

> I wonder what good things this will do for the UK. Firstly this would bring UK a lot of respect from the world community as any country prepared to stand up to the rule of law will always look good. Next, before China started messing with HK it was the financial hub of Asia, but as China starts to erode the rule of law in HK that title will most likely move on to Singapore. This then means the UK has a great opport…

> some of whom will no doubt be super rich

Surely the super rich already have Cyprus passports? This doesn’t really seem like a meaningful offer for the rich, they’d have no trouble with immigration anyway.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#103

Post by fiblye »

chrisco255 wrote: post #6
option wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we (US) should just give them all path to citizenship. No, special territory is a horrible idea.

Nah I think in HK's case it would be awesome. They'd have the autonomy to set up their own laws and regulations similar to what they currently have. I know this is a pie in the sky proposal but in my ideal world this would be a thing.

China would inevitably claim that it's part of China since it was granted to Hong Kongers exclusively, and Hong Kong is part of China.

It'd be like Crimea all over again, except China could have a legal argument that it's theirs instead of just claiming soldiers are vacationing there.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#104

Post by chub500 »

claudeganon wrote: post #64
save_ferris wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppressing the Tianenmen Square uprising. From a UK diplomatic cable describing the scene: > STUDENTS LINKED ARMS BUT WERE MOWN DOWN INCLUDING SOLDIERS. APCS THEN RAN OVER BODIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO MAKE QUOTE PIE UNQUOTE AND REMAINS COLLECTED BY BULLDOZER. REMAINS INCINERATED AND THEN HOSED DOWN DRAINS. Say what you will about the US, we still haven’t run citizens over with tanks and hosed them down drains. Sour…

Tanks are a bit showy when you can just have the police and National Guard shoot protestors without consequence: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Park_(Berkeley) Shooting workers that unionized was also common: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattimer_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Road_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine…

Parent obviously cares about the truth, evidenced by their references. It is amazing to me how so many freely thinking individuals can completely disregard the importance of free speech. How many of your references would be visible to a Chinese citizen? Doesn't the fact that we can discuss the US government's misdeeds on their own soil mean anything to you?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#105

Post by peteretep »

garmaine wrote: post #90
peteretep wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Regardless, legislative means were used, not force.

Legislative means we’re not used. China had no legal authority to do what they did... but no one will stop them. You are correct to point out that force was not used (n/m the divisions of tanks that have been on the border), and Taiwan is different.

> Legislative means were not used. China had no legal authority to do what they did

You are in disagreement with the BBC on this point:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838

> The Basic Law says Chinese laws can't be applied in Hong Kong unless they are listed in a section called Annex III - there are already a few listed there, mostly uncontroversial and around foreign policy. These laws can be introduced by decree - which means they bypass the city's parliament. Critics say the introduction of the law this way amounts to a breach of the "one country, two systems" principle, which is so important to Hong Kong - but clearly it is technically possible to do this.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#106

Post by tim58 »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #54
Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

They had no choice. Not due to military might (Gibraltar would be just as defenceless against Spanish invasion, and yet it doesn't happen). But simply because holding on to colonies became morally unsustainable. And the idea at the time was certainly that China would change in the five decades until unification. This was shortly after the end of the cold war, after all, which demonstrated that such change is possible…

> This was shortly after the end of the cold war, after all, which demonstrated that such change is possible, if not inevitable.

In 1997 most people wouldn't have thought it would be possible (or at least likely) for China to both be such a powerful country and be such an authoritarian country.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#107

Post by chrisco255 »

coldtea wrote: post #21
chrisco255 wrote: post #3

I wish the U.S. could make a New Hong Kong territory on the west coast somewhere. I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.

> I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here. Not many special "brilliant entrepreneurs". Just regular ole entrepreneurs taking advantage of the specific spot HK was in, and the specific relationship between Britain and China for global trade. Merely bring the same people elsewhere would accomplish no great mir…

Sorry but after watching the organized demonstrators against the CCP regime, I strongly disagree. And Miami itself is an interesting example you chose. Miami is made up of largely Cuban immigrants and their descendants who fled communism in Cuba only to succeed by and large in capitalist USA. They created a thriving ethnic community in South Florida and were given opportunities they would never have been able to achieve under the thumb of Castro.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#108

Post by rayiner »

door99 wrote: post #45
aswanson wrote: post #36

China is a horrific, authoritarian monster. I hope this century sees their vision checked and reduced back to the edges of humanity.

In the last 40 years, while China lifted a billion people out of poverty, what evil did they commit that is even remotely comparable to what the US did in, say, Iraq?

In the last 40 years more than 2 million Chinese have moved to the US. As of 2018, China is the biggest source of immigrants into the US.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#109

Post by peteretep »

mhh__ wrote: post #94
peteretep wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the four “Great Offices of State”, two are held by people of South Asian heritage, as is the AG, and another Cabinet Member. Two of those people are also women. Got to imaging Sajid Javid will be back there soon. Three of those five families that went via the empire in Africa. Conspicuous absence of black people tho.

I imagine Javid will battle it out with Sunak if the Tories decide Boris can't cut it against Keir

I imagine Priti will throw her hat in the ring too, although God forbid it comes to pass. I think Sunak would be a strong choice, where Javid doesn’t have the charisma.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#110

Post by rayhendricks »

entropea wrote: post #80
aswanson wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The united states is, on balance, a rather stupid country. We re-elected a dolt that invaded Iraq on the premise they caused 911 when they obviously didnt. That said, China poses a unique threat: a panopticon, freedom supressing government, with next to no option for change, and trying to expand its borders. Scary.

There are many around the world and in USA who would say the exact same about the USA and I'm sure China says the exact same about USA. I personally see no difference between the two except they're both fighting to be the world superpower and China is really stepping in to take that role from a USA in distress.

There is a difference. You can make fun of Trump/McConnel all day long, and no one cares because it is our free speech. Try putting a Xi Jinping blimp up in Beijing and see how fast you get arrested.

Try being a minority religion in China too...

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