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Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

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Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#21

Post by coldtea »

chrisco255 wrote: post #3

I wish the U.S. could make a New Hong Kong territory on the west coast somewhere. I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.

>I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.

Not many special "brilliant entrepreneurs". Just regular ole entrepreneurs taking advantage of the specific spot HK was in, and the specific relationship between Britain and China for global trade.

Merely bring the same people elsewhere would accomplish no great miracle.

It's not like taking SV-based VCs and programmers into e.g. Oklahome (where they'd just make a new hotspot, since their skills are carried with them).

It's more like taking the people in the tourist industry of Miami and moving them to Maine. It just wont work as well, since it was all about location in the first place...

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#22

Post by catalogia »

m0zg wrote: post #10
chrisco255 wrote: post #3

I wish the U.S. could make a New Hong Kong territory on the west coast somewhere. I think that would give the HKers access to the Pacific and a place to rebuild. I'd love to have those brilliant entrepreneurs and engineers over here.

I think we should let the UK pay for its sins for a change. Setting up anything "autonomous" with its own laws and customs is a terrible idea. Assimilation should be a requirement for immigration.

The people of Hong Kong are "paying" a hell of a lot more than the British.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#24

Post by tialaramex »

chrisco255 wrote: post #14
throwawaybab323 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a terrible idea. That would give china an excuse to try to kick the us out of asia.

If you mean our military bases in Japan and South Korea, who have no great trust of China, I'm not sure why China's opinion would be relevant there. If it's not controversial for Britain to offer them citizenship then it shouldn't be for US either. Even if it is...you gotta stand up to communism.

> If it's not controversial for Britain to offer them citizenship then it shouldn't be for US either

China objects strongly. It says these are Chinese citizens and Britain ceased to have any claim over the territory decades ago.

Of course since Britain's offer exists only on paper (there is no mechanism proposed by which a typical person in Hong Kong should actually make use of the offer to leave) the Chinese objection likewise extends only to paper.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#25

Post by Aeolun »

rayiner wrote: post #2

As someone from a country that was formerly part of the British Empire, I am viewing the situation in Hong Kong with horror. There are many negative things about the British legacy, but they gave us a global language, institutions, law, and notions of personal and economic freedom. The idea of all that being eaten by China...

It has literally all been eaten by China with this latest law.

The idea of HK as separate from China is just over.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#27

Post by throwaway5575 »

They should have just done it from the start,

> Britain’s ‘disgraceful’ pre-handover efforts to deny nationality to Hongkongers revealed in declassified cabinet files

> Officials repeatedly pressured Portugal not to grant rights to Macau residents to prevent Hongkongers from asking for similar treatment

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2156385...

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#28

Post by afarrell »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #12
rayiner wrote: post #2

As someone from a country that was formerly part of the British Empire, I am viewing the situation in Hong Kong with horror. There are many negative things about the British legacy, but they gave us a global language, institutions, law, and notions of personal and economic freedom. The idea of all that being eaten by China...

Might makes right, nothing we can do about it unless people are willing to die to protect them.

And also to kill. And there are a lot of mainland Chinese people.

Frankly, I don’t know how anyone has the stomach to sit behind a heavy machine gun and turn 200 mothers’ sons into rotting meat. I’d probably reach for my pistol.

Not that the PLA likely uses the same tactics as they did in the 1950s.

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#29

Post by throwaway2048 »

Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

Ultimately, the UK had absolutely zero chance at holding HK against the Chinese, HK was a tiny colony that could be seized basically instantly, and at the time decolonialization was still a global hotbutton issue.

A few decades before negotiations began between China and the UK, India seized the Portuguese colony of Goa[1]. Nobody acted on behalf of the Portuguese. With the USA having just a few years beforehand suffered defeat in the Vietnam war, and extremely unlikely to have the public support for another land war in Asia, but this time against a vastly stronger opponent for a relatively much less important parcel of land, There is little reason to believe anyone would have, or could have seriously contested China seizing Hong Kong.

Consider as well, during the Korean war, A China still badly crippled by World War 2 almost single handedly defeated an entire coalition of western powers, including a USA at the zenith of their conventional arms power.

The declaration was an alternative to a military annexation of Hong Kong by the Chinese.

The British probably acquiesced more than they had to, and didn't guarantee enough rights for Hong Kong citizens (especially the really lame part about not giving them a path to citizenship in the UK proper), but make no mistake, the alternative to the declaration wasn't Hong Kong remaining a part of the UK, it was Chinese invasion.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Goa

Re: Britain to give millions of HKers a path to citizenship

#30

Post by throwaway5575 »

Rapzid wrote: post #13

The Sino-British Joint Declaration was a mistake. What did they think would happen? If not now then what about in 2047?! Were they hoping that was enough time to warm the new generations to the idea of giving up their rights? There is no fixing this, but I appreciate the effort by the British. Many will not want to leave, understandably. But the threat of draining HK is an interesting sort of pressure to put on China…

During the 1967 protests in Hong Kong, the British killed enough protestors to quash it and pave the way for a new generation that accepted the situation.

I wonder if that is the game plan China is following? They have given up on the current generation , and are now hoping the next generation will follow them?

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