Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#151

Post by testiness » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

blackoil wrote: post #26

bergstromm466 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies I really think we have to move to a Commons-based peer production paradigm. Ask yourself, would I want to work for Foxconn assembling $1k iPhones for meager pay? [1] And I am not asking you from a hypothetical standpoint where you pretend to be an Indian in the context of the country India. My question is: would you accept a job starting wo…

I work in a high paying plush job. I will also not work in fields growing crops, neither in a call center, not even in a software service company paying me meagre ₹35 lakh/a. But what doed that mean?

Is ₹35 lakh/a that bad? While it's not the top 5%, it still goes a long way, even in Tier 1 cities.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#152

Post by MrsPeaches » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 AM UTC

pankajdoharey wrote: post #20

kodablah wrote: post #12

> With India’s labour cheaper compared with China, and the gradual expansion of its supplier base here, Apple will be able to use the country as an export hub While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies (albeit it slowly and not always agreeing with the politics of the newly-built middle classes). One might expect manufacturing in mid-Africa in two decades.

Actually I think, the most ideal countries to expand manufacturing to are African countries, they have some of the same advantages once china had. 1. Mineral Resources. 2. Cheap Labour. 3. High Density of Lanthanide and Actinide group minerals. China also has a fourth advantage which is a good mix of Production, Manufacturing and Electronics Engineers. Which Africa doesn't have. On the other hand India doesn't have t…

> So the ideal situation in my view would be to setup manufacturing hub in African countries. Hire Chinese/Indian/American/Russian manufacturing Engineers and the rich mineral resources in African countries.

Wow, neocolonialism much? This sort of extractive thinking is exactly the reason that countries in Africa remain some of the poorest in the world. Which companies do you think will be bringing in these foreign workers? Do you expect them to settle there?

How many counties can you name for whom bringing large numbers of foreign knowledge workers worked to build up a a strong manufacturing core (apart from maybe operation paper clip [1])?

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#153

Post by myopenid2 » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #30

Serious question: Modern manufacturing, especially for things like electronics, is highly automated and increasingly so. That implies you don't need a lot of labor to do it and what you do need is skilled labor anyway. Lower unskilled labor costs don't seem like a huge advantage there. So what's still keeping it in countries like China and India and not e.g. Minnesota, which would yield a PR advantage and lower trans…

Here's a cynical view: a human is cheaper to "develop" and "program" than a fully automated production plant in most third world.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#154

Post by tixocloud » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:33 AM UTC

MrsPeaches wrote: post #152

pankajdoharey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think, the most ideal countries to expand manufacturing to are African countries, they have some of the same advantages once china had. 1. Mineral Resources. 2. Cheap Labour. 3. High Density of Lanthanide and Actinide group minerals. China also has a fourth advantage which is a good mix of Production, Manufacturing and Electronics Engineers. Which Africa doesn't have. On the other hand India doesn't have t…

> So the ideal situation in my view would be to setup manufacturing hub in African countries. Hire Chinese/Indian/American/Russian manufacturing Engineers and the rich mineral resources in African countries. Wow, neocolonialism much? This sort of extractive thinking is exactly the reason that countries in Africa remain some of the poorest in the world. Which companies do you think will be bringing in these foreign wo…

There is opportunity to be somewhere in the middle ground that can help lift the wealth of a 3rd world country. In the case of Malaysia, the country focused heavily on manufacturing for foreign entities but was structured as joint ventures with the goal to retain knowledge within the country. Many industrialised nations saw this as “protectionism” as capital flowing in without flow out as easily and you are bounded by many restrictions. However, for citizens within the country, quality of life increased because of these policies.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#155

Post by sbmthakur » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:34 AM UTC

P6Rs4r wrote: post #124

sbmthakur wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It leaves out MUSLIMS. All those three countries in the context have Islam as their state religion. I would always welcome Muslim refugees in India but what was the point of partition if Muslims are suffering religious oppression in countries that were created as safe heavens for Muslims? Should we undo it? And even recent searches show that minorities (the religions covered under the CAA) are not exactly doing bet…

This is post-facto legitimization of the logic of partition. Why shouldn't we undo partition (if possible)?

Partition doesn't need legitimization. It has been legitimate since the day both nations recognized each other.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#156

Post by uedue828e » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:38 AM UTC

MrsPeaches wrote: post #152

pankajdoharey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think, the most ideal countries to expand manufacturing to are African countries, they have some of the same advantages once china had. 1. Mineral Resources. 2. Cheap Labour. 3. High Density of Lanthanide and Actinide group minerals. China also has a fourth advantage which is a good mix of Production, Manufacturing and Electronics Engineers. Which Africa doesn't have. On the other hand India doesn't have t…

> So the ideal situation in my view would be to setup manufacturing hub in African countries. Hire Chinese/Indian/American/Russian manufacturing Engineers and the rich mineral resources in African countries. Wow, neocolonialism much? This sort of extractive thinking is exactly the reason that countries in Africa remain some of the poorest in the world. Which companies do you think will be bringing in these foreign wo…

China?

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#157

Post by uedue828e » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:40 AM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #93

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but it's an awfully useful pretense for America to invade you if you're not "democratic"

That's just been completely orthogonal. Autocrats that toe the line get to stay in power; democracies that don't get military coups.

Yeah it's totally black and white like that.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#158

Post by cm2187 » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:44 AM UTC

pankajdoharey wrote: post #20

kodablah wrote: post #12

> With India’s labour cheaper compared with China, and the gradual expansion of its supplier base here, Apple will be able to use the country as an export hub While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies (albeit it slowly and not always agreeing with the politics of the newly-built middle classes). One might expect manufacturing in mid-Africa in two decades.

Actually I think, the most ideal countries to expand manufacturing to are African countries, they have some of the same advantages once china had. 1. Mineral Resources. 2. Cheap Labour. 3. High Density of Lanthanide and Actinide group minerals. China also has a fourth advantage which is a good mix of Production, Manufacturing and Electronics Engineers. Which Africa doesn't have. On the other hand India doesn't have t…

I think you should add to your list political stability, infrastructures (including basic things like stable electricity supply) and a cooperative workforce.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#159

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:45 AM UTC

h0l0cube wrote: post #139

em500 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ILO studies ends in 2000 and shows a slight increase in the US near the end. Here's what happened after 2000: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG (Note that it's not clear if decreases in worked hours are actually desirable. Some people believe many part-timers would want to work more if they could.)

Yeah, given the dips corresponding to tech crash and financial crisis, it could be more an effect of underemployment, rather than more leisure time, or less overwork. Given the relatively weak social welfare policy in the US (amongst developed nations), that would match with the narrative of social unrest in lower income brackets in recent years.

[deleted]

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#160

Post by Kliment » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 8:48 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #30

Serious question: Modern manufacturing, especially for things like electronics, is highly automated and increasingly so. That implies you don't need a lot of labor to do it and what you do need is skilled labor anyway. Lower unskilled labor costs don't seem like a huge advantage there. So what's still keeping it in countries like China and India and not e.g. Minnesota, which would yield a PR advantage and lower trans…

The main reason modern manufacturing is in (mostly south) China is the ecosystem! For electronics specifically, you have a tightly woven network of suppliers, factories, part distributors, logistics companies, and lots of local expertise tying it all together, as well as lots of established relationships and processes that keep it running smoothly. A factory, however highly automated, does not run in isolation. Of course you can build that kind of ecosystem elsewhere, but that's a 3-4 decade project and requires enormous investment at high political and financial risk (which is what China did in the 80s with the SEZs).