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John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

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Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#61

Post by mistermann »

ralmidani wrote: post #58

I can understand how some people see complete validity in Cleese's argument that those hurt by someone's words/behavior should "control their own emotions" rather than demand that the offending party be more considerate of their emotions, but I do not. Black people should not have to "control their own emotions" when a non-Black person uses the N-word to get a cheap laugh, like, etc. at their expense. Muslims should…

You have correctly pointed out a few scenarios where Cleese's "control their own emotions" argument would not be valid. Are you also able to think of any scenarios where his point would be valid, or do you believe that in all instances of human behavior on the planet across time, emotional reactions are accurate, and the subsequent actions taken justified? "I do not" implies you do not, but I feel I may be misinterpreting that phrase.

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#62

Post by shadowgovt »

blub wrote: post #55
shadowgovt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Big Think was recorded in 2016. It's interesting to see where the Big Thoughts have led him in the intervening 3 years. Engaging ideas on their merits isn't the same as engaging them in a vacuum.

Where have the big thoughts led him? Maybe you could post that directly instead of some vague innuendo and save us all some wasted time.

It goes to his definition of "political correctness." It seems that what he feels needs to be culturally protected is his right to make unfunny, inaccurate claims about the nature of London without criticism. While (to my knowledge) nobody says he shouldn't have the right to make such claims, the notion that he's heading towards an "Orwellian nightmare" because people have less tolerance for such inaccurate and unfunny claims and will call him to task for such nonsense is a bit silly.

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#63

Post by [deleted] »

jacknews wrote: post #44
ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unreasonable to evaluate someone's comments in the context of their past statements on related matters.

Of course, it's called 'context'. But arguing that previous miss-steps invalidate current arguments is irrational.

[deleted]

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#64

Post by shadowgovt »

jacknews wrote: post #44
ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unreasonable to evaluate someone's comments in the context of their past statements on related matters.

Of course, it's called 'context'. But arguing that previous miss-steps invalidate current arguments is irrational.

No disagreement there. I shared the link to give context.

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#65

Post by shadowgovt »

the-dude wrote: post #7
shadowgovt wrote: post #2

Perhaps worth noting: This is the same John Cleese that has decried London becoming a multicultural city that is "no longer English." https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/john-cleese-is-cancel...

Why do you feel this is relevant in the context of PC?

I believe it sheds light on Cleese's definition of both political correctness and intolerance of un-PC attitudes.

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#66

Post by the-dude »

shadowgovt wrote: post #57
the-dude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the kind words. I am not pretending there is a conspiracy at all. The PC is out in the open.

Can you give some concrete examples of someone being censured for criticizing people being called cancer-whore? It's not out of the realm of possibility, but that seems an extraordinary claim.

Do you actually have an opinion about people being called cancer whore out of the blue or are you just here trying to supress discussion about it?

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#67

Post by shadowgovt »

scubbo wrote: post #31
totally_a_human wrote: post #4

"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behaviour." Watching the current state of the western world, apparently only very few people have the ability to reflect on themself enough to realize this. Hopefully this is only a loud minorty. I maybe the wrong person to judge, but imho, we need to resolutely oppose the PC- and cancel culture.

(disclaimer - I haven't watched the video, because a. it's a video, come on, and b. John Cleese's attitudes are already well-known to me from many other sources, interviews, etc.) > If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behaviour. Yes, this statement is exactly true - but not in the way that John, and you, seem to think. One interpretation - yours, if I m…

Precsisely. What has changed about the Internet in the past several decades is a huge chunk of humanity is on it, and what has changed about humanity in the past several decades is the Internet exposes them---bidirectionally and with fewer authority-figures as filters---to portions of the world they could not previously easily see.

The pressures to living in that new ecosystem are enormous.

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#69

Post by shadowgovt »

ur-whale wrote: post #13

He said "can lead to" in 2016. I think he would say "has landed us in" today.

It's hard for me to take seriously claims that we're in an Orwellian world when there is so much open controversy on so many topics.

If anything, I think we're in a Huxleyan dystopia, not an Orwellian one; so much distraction, there's no way for an average person to gain enough footing to expend energy with practical utility.

Re: John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare (2016)

#70

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

I just clicked to make sure someone flagged it already. We regresssed and are no longer able to have a civilized discussion even about trifles such as the usage of words like "dummy" in IT, so how on Earth could we be ready to discuss more fundamental isses John is talking about?
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