New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans • Hacker News Board

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#171

Post by rurban » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:50 AM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #52

azinman2 wrote: post #30

Pretty shocking in a state that has such strict privacy laws. Not sure how the two can come from the same mouth, and even be in public view. My understanding is that the privacy restrictions are largely the result of half the country having lived under the Statsi, and thus being extremely weary of government eyes. Here it’s out in the open!

There is something hilarious and schizoid in how Germany is perceived and the realities about this country. They have strict privacy laws? First Nazi personel in the first half then Stasi personel in the second half of the 20th century were simply requalified and rehired, each bloody time. How do you think? They are top environmentally-friendly country? Highest polluting coal power plants in EU are located in Germany…

You forgot the Nazi personal in the 2nd half. The BND is a NAZI organization. Lookup Gehlen. Didn't change much after they died, if you look at the various BND scandals since.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#172

Post by throwawayway9 » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:15 AM UTC

mindfulhack wrote: post #156

waheoo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What. Its awful. Privacy doesnt need comparisons or analogies. We have the language to describe privacy in native terms. We dont need help of figurative speech mixing and muddying the waters.

I love making analogies. I even compared apples to oranges and it worked! Humour aside, analogies are really important and I have never understood the disparagement of comparing one group or situation to another. Analogising is a tool to help understand one other and promote diversity.

The analogies help break it down for less technically oriented people so that they can get behind the cause as well.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#173

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

mindfulhack wrote: post #126

To not even be sure whether a website you visit, or a file you download is actually what its creator says it is, is like picking up an orange but the government secretly replaces it with an apple that contains almost no vitamin C in it at all. You have the right to seek out and eat an orange for your immune system and survival, and no government should have the right to interfere with that, at any time. This law is a…

[deleted]

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#174

Post by kleiba » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:24 AM UTC

mindfulhack wrote: post #126

To not even be sure whether a website you visit, or a file you download is actually what its creator says it is, is like picking up an orange but the government secretly replaces it with an apple that contains almost no vitamin C in it at all. You have the right to seek out and eat an orange for your immune system and survival, and no government should have the right to interfere with that, at any time. This law is a…

> I hope the parliament outright rejects it for what it is.

Unfortunately, there's not much hope for this. As the article states: "The proposed law is already the result of lots of back and forth within the government and many expect it to pass when it is presented to Germany’s congressional body, the Bundestag, after next week."

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#175

Post by peroporque » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

bzb3 wrote: post #170

mschuster91 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whoever proposed it should be ashamed of themselves Name and shame: Interior Minister Horst Seehofer of the conservative-authoritarian CSU. He and his party friends are who want this. We have the chance to kick them out of office in 2021, it's time for the stranglehold of Conservative internet-printers (Internetausdrucker, a German word for tech illiterates) as Interior Ministers to end once and for all .

How's the CSU authoritarian? That's like throwing expletives around; you might as well call them Nazis and get it over with.

It's not. Modern CDU/CSU are basically where the social democrats were about ten years ago.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#176

Post by kleiba » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:31 AM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #52

azinman2 wrote: post #30

Pretty shocking in a state that has such strict privacy laws. Not sure how the two can come from the same mouth, and even be in public view. My understanding is that the privacy restrictions are largely the result of half the country having lived under the Statsi, and thus being extremely weary of government eyes. Here it’s out in the open!

There is something hilarious and schizoid in how Germany is perceived and the realities about this country. They have strict privacy laws? First Nazi personel in the first half then Stasi personel in the second half of the 20th century were simply requalified and rehired, each bloody time. How do you think? They are top environmentally-friendly country? Highest polluting coal power plants in EU are located in Germany…

Obviously, the OP was talking about the perception of Germany today and I think we can safely assume that no Ex-Nazi personnel is currently working at the German secret service. And coming to think of it, why wouldn't someone whose qualified to spy on others be rehired to do the same job in Germany after the end of GDR? What do you think secret services do?

Regarding "environmentally friendly", this point is correct but you're omitting that Germany just recently passed a law to get out of coal until 2038. The energy produced in Germany will then be pretty much exclusively renewable which is not a small feat for a country with such a large population.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#177

Post by KozmoNau7 » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:36 AM UTC

seph-reed wrote: post #163

arminiusreturns wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried to explain my thoughts on this before, so I'll give it the ol college try again. I propose that the decentralized anarchistic, freedom of thought nature of the internet has essentially forced an acceleration the timetables for the totalitarian dystopian system. The internet caught the oligarchs off guard, in the big scheme of things (the oligarchs make plans that their grandchildren execute)... and it took…

It weirds me out that you're probably the first person I've seen in years on the internet saying something this "bold" and unambiguous. I often wonder if there's some system in place which separates us. Or perhaps the combo of logic, intuition, and honesty is just super rare. I don't know, but I hope you're doing well and having a reasonably fulfilling adventure amongst this hellishly senseless superstition culture.…

Anarchists and other like-minded people have been aware and vocal about this power structure for decades, centuries even, long before the internet existed.

Why do you think anarchists have generally been tarred as destructive and dangerous in the media and by the political and corporate establishment for so long?

The most insidious thing is that the status quo has become so ingrained in people that they reflexively downvote, censor and ban anarchists, because their masters tell them to.

Big tech is very much a part of the problem.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#178

Post by raxxorrax » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

mindfulhack wrote: post #126

To not even be sure whether a website you visit, or a file you download is actually what its creator says it is, is like picking up an orange but the government secretly replaces it with an apple that contains almost no vitamin C in it at all. You have the right to seek out and eat an orange for your immune system and survival, and no government should have the right to interfere with that, at any time. This law is a…

> Whoever proposed it should be ashamed of themselves.

Our current government doesn't even know what that means.

This is why a VPN is indeed helpful, because now ISP are the primary attack vector.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#179

Post by durnygbur » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 7:51 AM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #176

durnygbur wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something hilarious and schizoid in how Germany is perceived and the realities about this country. They have strict privacy laws? First Nazi personel in the first half then Stasi personel in the second half of the 20th century were simply requalified and rehired, each bloody time. How do you think? They are top environmentally-friendly country? Highest polluting coal power plants in EU are located in Germany…

Obviously, the OP was talking about the perception of Germany today and I think we can safely assume that no Ex-Nazi personnel is currently working at the German secret service. And coming to think of it, why wouldn't someone whose qualified to spy on others be rehired to do the same job in Germany after the end of GDR? What do you think secret services do? Regarding "environmentally friendly", this point is correct…

> Hilarious and schizoid are adjectives that I would assign to your post.

Sorry but you are rude.

> I think we can safely assume that no Ex-Nazi personnel is currently working at the German secret service

Stasi personel though?

Are you expecting that people using such nuanced and subtle techniques like Zersetzung against domestic population [1] will suddently become ethical towards anyone they perceive as threat? or as undesirable?

On the facade Germans get some show off initiatives (no Street View!), behind the scenes is business as usual.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#180

Post by ferzul » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 8:05 AM UTC

mindfulhack wrote: post #156

waheoo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What. Its awful. Privacy doesnt need comparisons or analogies. We have the language to describe privacy in native terms. We dont need help of figurative speech mixing and muddying the waters.

I love making analogies. I even compared apples to oranges and it worked! Humour aside, analogies are really important and I have never understood the disparagement of comparing one group or situation to another. Analogising is a tool to help understand one other and promote diversity.

analogies are great, but there's just literally nothing that corresponds to vitamin c on the internet. the analogy just goes into completely unchartered waters and crashes against the rocks when it pretends that it is a life or death matter. the internet can't stop you getting scurvy - in fact, since it's effective at reducing exercise, it seems to run in the opposite direction from the truth and it's just alarmist nonsense.