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U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

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471–480 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#471

> The ruling voided McGirt’s sentence of 1,000 years in prison but he could face a new trial in federal court rather than state court. LOOOOOOOOOOL Man avoids millenium long rape conviction using obscure treaty.

He'll just be re-tried in the correct jurisdiction. I doubt there will be much avoidance.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#472
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision. There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement. When Co…

Political parties have very intentionally created the deep divides in the electorate. It's not something that just happened, it was something that was made to occur for the benefit of the politicians. So I'm still putting the blame right on them.

The power of political parties has _greatly declined_ in the last 50 years. Do you think perhaps more powerful parties had a longer-term outlook and were more willing to compromise?

Personally I don’t think the decline in Congressional power has a single cause. But the decline of political party power is surely one.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#473
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every tribe handles this themselves, it's based on ancestry. They define their own cutoff points, such as 1/16 etc.

Not all tribes calculate blood quantum at all.

That's why he said the tribe decides.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#474

Uh, surely it doesn't mean the the people residing in the area in question can go on committing what would be a crime under Oklahoma law... right ?

I think it means that the borders of Oklahoma get more complex when you consider the treaties that the US has entered into. It's worth noting that according to the constitution, treaties have equal weight to the constitution. Therefore this ruling seems to me a way of saying "hey, maybe we should draw the maps according to the highest law in the land". It has a bonus effect of signalling that the native people are ac…

That's all nice and well, but what does it mean for the 1.8 million non-native-american people in that area, can one of them now rob another and not be guilty of a crime ? Or does it mean every robbery/arson/murder there can only be investigated by the FBI and charged in a federal court ?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For non-natives not really. For natives, it depends on the agreements. This isn't really a traditional reservation situation, since the tribes really are not going to have the traditional governance over the land. For example, the cops are not going to get replaced by BIA or Tribal police.

Why not? If they're on tribal land, what's to stop the tribe from governing?

There are other places that are technically on tribal land, and that hasn't allowed the tribe to government them. The city and state is not going to cede governance on non-members to the tribe. Its going to end up being an agreement between the state and the tribe.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#476
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. Is this the first time a major city has fallen within a reservation?

Don't know if you'd qualify it as a "major" city, but over 10% of Palm Springs CA is on an Indian reservation. For interesting historical reasons, though, the reservation is basically shaped like a checkerboard, where every other 640-acre square is reservation land. This obviously has huge implications on real estate - none of the reservation land is sold, just leased, and there were some recent cases where the tribe…

Same is true of Green Bay, WI. About 15% of the city intersects with the Oneida Nation reservation. While also not a "major" city, it is over twice the size of Palm Springs.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a distinctly queer idea of physics. Just because many many assholes in the past have used violence to steal land, does not require any of the following: * current or future people honor the validity of those assholes' decisions and actions * current or future people choosing to make right the bad things their ancestors did in the past, and giving back what was taken. * current or future people changing the s…

Because that is how this world works. You may be new out of the womb intellectually speaking, but if a child shows up at my doorstep one day and tells me I'm on his ancestors land from 300 years prior and I must vacate the home I bought and have legal title too, on the land my ancestors fought and bled over 300 years prior, even if they were assholes about it at the time, I have zero obligation to hand it over becaus…

This argument translated to other situations:

* we can't just end slavery - this is not how this world works. There have been slaves forever. We can't change slavery because of feelings.

* we can't give women the right to vote. This is not how this world works, women are supposed to be property of their men. We can't just let them do it because of feelings.

* we can't try to have a geneva conventio. This is not how this world works, excessive torture and cruelty have always been part of war. We cant just expect or troops to show humanity.

* we can't give land ownership rights to commoners. This is not how the world works, nobility has always had special privelege to own a thing. We cant just expect to let lesser humans have land because of feelings.

Finally: if your argument applies equally to a pro- and anit-Isreal stance - it's existence both proves and violates your exact point at the same time, depending on which stance you are already more inclined to.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, but it also doesn't change that this particular person might be let free. I think it's OK to feel a little ambivalent about this ruling.

I think it’s not about his freedom, but one of the two courts that could charge him have the death penalty. His legal case is about avoiding that.

He was already convicted and sentenced to 1,000 years. So I don't think the death penalty was on the table.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#479
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary. This not accurate. Congress failing to act due to deadlock does not indicate that either party agrees that no change ought to be made, only that congress couldn’t come to an agreement about how it should be made. To say otherwise is akin to saying that, because you and your husband can’t agree on where to eat for dinn…

> This not accurate. Congress failing to act due to deadlock does not indicate that either party agrees that no change ought to be made, only that congress couldn’t come to an agreement about how it should be made. That is actually literally what it means. The way the Union is set up, there is a certain amount of consensus necessary to pass legislation over 50 States across 300+ million people. If there is a deadlock…

Yup. In tech terms, deadlock is an intentional feature, not a big.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might makes right. Land has no true owners, only those with the means to defend it. Florida could be part of "greater Canada" if the US government was weak and the Canadian government felt it was worth it.

You're literally justifying genocide.

I don't think I'm saying any of this is fine, just pointing out that geopolitics isn't about what's morally correct. Anyone can own any piece of land for just about any reason so long as they have the firepower to back it up.
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