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U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

reuters.com

411–420 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#411
post #194

Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law. To hold otherwise would be to elevate the most brazen and longstanding injustices over the law, both rewarding wrong and failing those in the right. I disagree with this reasoning. As a counterexample I point you to squatters rights. If I live on your land long and openly enough, my unlawful act will confer ownership of…

Good. The natives deserve a fair shake and the land is roomy enough for people to get along and work together. Forcing that is a damn good thing. The USA has a lot to account for, and it is very sick. Rough roads ahead. Maybe they lead to better places. I do not feel good about the last 4 or so decades of travel. As a people, maybe world, we may well be better for going down this road.

For the record I have a brother living on a native reservation. I am well aware of exactly how horrible our past and continuing treatment of the natives have been. And strongly support fixing our ongoing treatment of them.

However I also strongly believe that our future prosperity is based more on current actions than past circumstances. And therefore believe that attempts to redress long past ills are actively harmful to us as a society. And furthermore believe that a focus on long past harms on the part of groups who were victimized is actively harmful to the people who are focused on the past.

And therefore I believe that there should be some sort of statute of limitations on which past harms we are willing to try to redress. I don't support trying to redress ills from over a century ago whether we are talking about restoring native reservations, or paying reparations for slavery. If you go back far enough, we all were done wrong to by someone else. And usually you don't have to go back too far to find it.

For example it was less than 100 years ago that my Irish grandparents were targeted by the KKK in a part of Oregon where my cousins still live. I know because my now deceased aunt and uncles told me about it. Many descendants of the KKK members still live in the same place.

On a side note, it is a little shocking to me that so many support a decision in favor of a man who was convicted of sodomizing a 4 year old child.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#412

From the actual opinion: "Oklahoma replies that its situation is different because the affected population here is large and many of its residents will be surprised to find out they have been living in Indian country this whole time. But we imagine some members of the 1832 Creek Tribe would be just as surprised to find them there." Damn, nice shade, Gorsuch! https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pd…

Gorsuch is a joy to read because he mixes in history with some interesting side comments.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#413

The numbers should really be 100% instead of 25% and 10%. Much has been stolen from them.

Might makes right. Land has no true owners, only those with the means to defend it. Florida could be part of "greater Canada" if the US government was weak and the Canadian government felt it was worth it.

You're literally justifying genocide.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience as well. I live in a city now, but I love the times I have spent traveling through or to rural areas. They have a bad reputation that is based on false notions of urban superiority and stereotypes that feel as baseless and unhinged as claims of other types of superiority (e.g. racial). The reality is when you visit these rural places, talk to the people there, take part in their culture, t…

> I come from Minneapolis, and before that I lived in Seattle and Boston — three of the bluest, most left-leaning cities in the United States. I was an urban woman and couldn’t imagine living anywhere other than a city. My husband concurred. Then our 28-year-old son died in late 2016. > Suddenly the traffic and noise and confusion became too much. John and I took off on a year’s driving tour of gentler parts — both o…

Damn I never wanted to go to Arkansas before, now I do!

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#415
post #130

Just a couple notes here from a person of tribal descent (I am Wasq'u, a tribe in the PNW), for those trying to make sense of it. This ruling, as I understand it, resolves a narrow technicality—but that technicality has potentially enormous implications. The Court has only decided that the federal [EDIT: state! sorry!] government has no prosecutorial jurisdiction against citizens of the so-called "Five Civilized Trib…

Do you know if this means that the land on which buildings are built could be taxed by the tribes?

I live in the desert in CA and here most buildings built on Indian reservations pay a yearly leasing fee.

It would be such a huge power shift for the tribal nations. It's one of those things that could ripple through the system or hit some stone wall I'm unaware of. Really interested to know what will happen.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tempted to say that the uselessness of Congress is in indication of something else - we've pushed too much to the federal level. The decades-long tooth-and-nail fighting over healthcare makes me think that an effective system just can't be done federally; there's too much disagreement between states. Why not scrap most of the social programs, cut federal taxes, and let states implement their own?

Rural counties are conservative, urban counties are liberal, and never the twain shall meet. I posit that there will always be this conflict until cities have a blue federation superimposed on a red countryside. But the constitution isn't set up that way. Maybe next time.

The political disagreements within states are a lot less intense than the political disagreements between states. Maryland is a solidly blue state at the federal level. But we have a Republican governor with a 78% approval rating who won a third of Black voters against a Black candidate in 2018.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#417
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you even define a tribe citizen? Is there like an ID card? Is it a DNA test? Does Elizabeth Warren qualify?

The tribes have their own mechanisms for identifying citizens like any other jus sanguinis nationality. The specifics depend on the tribe in question.

Its pretty universal, mainly because of the Federal requirements, that its based on blood quantum. Most tribes are 1/4 some are 1/8.

Having Ancestry dot com or similar service tell you anything is not accepted by any tribe.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#418
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be that the 17th Amendment changing the appointment of Senators to a popular vote from elections by state legislators was a mistake, as "anti-democratic" as that may sound, it may be a good principal in a Republic. The house weighs the popular opinion, the Senate, the will of States.

the senate itself existing was a mistake. It only is fair in the context of some kind of relative equality of states, letting low-population states grind policy to a halt is inherently antidemocratic. (by design! the point was to give smaller states a say and that itself is the problem, it is a bad idea to let a minority be able to grind all action to a halt. You say "but what if they do something I don't like" and t…

Not to mention obvious moves to exploit the system. The reason there are two Dakotas was literally to give the Republicans two extra senate seats.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone deserves a vigorous legal defense, even the most reprehensible. If the accused or convicted are exempt from the rule of law, so are those who are accused or convicted by mistake, corruption, or abuse of power. Competent and committed legal defense for everyone defends the rule of law as it's applied to all of us.

Yep, but it also doesn't change that this particular person might be let free. I think it's OK to feel a little ambivalent about this ruling.

I think it’s not about his freedom, but one of the two courts that could charge him have the death penalty. His legal case is about avoiding that.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#420
post #329

Being part Sami I think it's fascinating to read about the system of reservations in the USA. I'm not sure about minority rule, but I'm clearly in favour of saving the unique cultures and ethnicities from dying out. After many years of persecution in Northeren Europe—including forced assimilation often called "Norwegianization" or "Swedification," and near extinction in Russia—we've finally gotten some recognition as…

Reservations were not created out of generosity, quite the opposite.
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