Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 239 posts

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#191

Post by hkmaxpro »

Udik wrote: post #179
zackees wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention From the Wiki article, the UN definition of Genocide is met if... ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life c…

It seems to meet the definition of genocide if sterilisation methods are used, as it is claimed in the article. On the other hand, it's a bit of a tricky point because China has nation-wide policoes about fertility (the one child policy and its regional variations) so it's not clear if the Uighurs are especially singled out or simply punished for not respecting a national law.

Likely singled out

> Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang.

> But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show. Some rural Muslims, like Omirzakh, are punished even for having the three children allowed by the law

> Leaked data obtained and corroborated by the AP showed that of 484 camp detainees listed in Karakax county in Xinjiang, 149 were there for having too many children - the most common reason for holding them.

> Seven former detainees told the AP that they were force-fed birth control pills or injected with fluids, often with no explanation. Many felt dizzy, tired or ill, and women stopped getting their periods. After being released and leaving China, some went to get medical check-ups and found they were sterile

https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#192

Post by chr1 »

TriNetra wrote: post #72
AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

Just for a moment reflect on this fact: for almost all human beings on this planet, the goal of life continues to revolve around gaining wealth, recognition and power. By the time one realizes the worthlessness of these goals, it's time for him to leave. But as long as these remain the primary goals of our lives, we can't truly be compassionate toward the needs/plight of others and at every opportune moment, we'll tr…

> worthlessness of these goals, it's time for him to leave

That's why supporting SENS foundation, and any other research aiming to prolong human lifespan is the most important investment now.

But i can't agree that the desire to gain wealth, recognition and power is a bad thing by itself, it only becomes a problem if someone doesn't understand that free and independent people living their and lives discovering new science will eventually give orders of magnitude more wealth and power to everyone than a conquerer ever can take by force.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#193

Post by Retric »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #151
Retric wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend the invasion, but the difference between say Japan post WWII and Iraq is almost entirely internal. Blaming the invasion for those deaths is not unreasonable, but it’s glossing over a lot of context.

That's true in part. But if you gloss over (or understand & accept) those internal differences when planning the invasion, then really the consequences are largely also on you. Every middle-east expert would've predicted the region would be destabilised leading to high-odds of (civil) wars for many years.

I think a Middle East expert with have said the invasion would very likely incite significant violence and economic harm. However, they would have also said a civil war in the next 20 years even without an invasion was also a significant probability. So, plotting out the number of excess deaths assuming a completely stable Iraq is overly optimistic thinking.

As external observers it’s easy to think of Iraq as a horrific civil war. Yet, it maintained positive population growth so that’s not what happened. It’s more accurate to consider things in terms of Mexican gangs and lack of social order than civil unrest.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#194

Post by Udik »

hkmaxpro wrote: post #191
Udik wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to meet the definition of genocide if sterilisation methods are used, as it is claimed in the article. On the other hand, it's a bit of a tricky point because China has nation-wide policoes about fertility (the one child policy and its regional variations) so it's not clear if the Uighurs are especially singled out or simply punished for not respecting a national law.

Likely singled out > Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang. > But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show. Some rural Muslims, like Omirzakh, are punished even for havi…

You also have to take in account the rate of compliance to the law by Uighurs. If they're strongly religious and fiercely determined to keep their traditions, I guess they might also be much less compliant than the rest of the population, and therefore subject to more widespread repression.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#195

Post by m12k »

refurb wrote: post #166
m12k wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth is that the world would most likely not have done anything about the holocaust if Nazi Germany hadn't also invaded their neighboring countries. Killing people at home is just frowned upon, but killing people next door is where you get in trouble. The world is a quite a ways from actually being the civilized place that we like to pretend it is.

What could the West have done beyond doing what they were already doing - fighting a war with Germany? Blown up rail lines leading to the camps? Would the Germans have said “oh, well let them go then.” No, they would have found other ways to murder them. It’s not that different than China. You want to stop the genocide? Well, prepare for a major war with millions of deaths on both sides.

You seem to misunderstand my comment. My point was that the West only fought a war with Germany because they invaded Poland and other neighboring countries. Had the Nazis not done that, the West would most likely not have fought them, even if the concentration camps had come to light.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#196

Post by bE9a3S5So8igd3 »

ironman1478 wrote: post #47
AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

As I've gotten older, I've come to really feel like humans just haven't been around that long and we really haven't progressed that much outside of technology. WW2 wasn't really that long ago and neither was the the American civil war, both wars based on race and atrocities. I think it's a bit of a fallacy to think that just because some country is technology and economically advanced it will have correct moral value…

> WW2 wasn't really that long ago and neither was the the American civil war, both wars based on race and atrocities

I don't think the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was racially motivated.

> in America we aren't as far gone (but there are people in America who probably wouldn't mind killing other groups).

I agree. I think the definitely-not-fascist leftists in USA are dangerously close to lynching whites. Oddly, so many American whites are deluded into believing leftist activism mania is about making a cute incremental improvement rather than burning it all to the ground.

That national socialism (combined with 20th century eugenics) could become as popular as it did in Nazi Germany had been surprising to me. Given the state of the modern leftist cult, it's no longer surprising. People can actually be deluded to such an extent!

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#197

Post by apta »

ianleeclark wrote: post #143
apta wrote: post #96

Another holocaust is being committed right in front of everyone. What will the world do now? Sit back and keep taking advantage of the benefits of cheap Chinese labour? Isn't it time to wake up and cut this barbaric behavior if we're going to claim we moved past what happened in WWII?

> Another holocaust is being committed right in front of everyone. What will the world do now? Sit back and keep taking advantage of the benefits of cheap Chinese labour? Note: I'm not defending this, and I'm not looking forward to the coming Chinese hegemony. However, what is the proposed alternative? It's obvious from the past few months just how deeply reliant western supply chains are on China. When the Dutch wer…

> It's obvious from the past few months just how deeply reliant western supply chains are on China.

It's not just the West, but the world in general. Everyone should cut economic ties with them, that's the least we should do. At an individual level, we should boycott Chinese products as much as we can. There are efforts like https://www.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/, which are a start, but we need more stringent measures.

It's also obvious as another poster in this thread mentioned, the pro-Chinese propaganda being pushed on forums like this one. Any sentiment or comments that raises awareness against Chinese crimes and barbarism gets down voted. This should be a wakeup call, they're infiltrating everything.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#200

Post by apta »

refurb wrote: post #172
apta wrote: post #96

Another holocaust is being committed right in front of everyone. What will the world do now? Sit back and keep taking advantage of the benefits of cheap Chinese labour? Isn't it time to wake up and cut this barbaric behavior if we're going to claim we moved past what happened in WWII?

Are you willing to die or have your countrymen die to stop it? Because that’s likely what it would take.

Many Muslims are willing to fight to save their Uighur brothers and sisters being genocided.
Post reply on HN