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MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#191

Post by iameli »

Leherenn wrote: post #140
iameli wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing so would probably require amending the First Amendment, which I think would do more harm than good. But Germany seems to have implemented such a system without becoming a dystopian hellscape. Seems a pretty nice place to live.

Not an American, so feel free to correct me. It seems to me that there are already plenty of laws that breach the 1st amendment if you interpret speech as absolutely any speech (e.g. death threats, libel, ...). And it is constitutional because the current interpretation of speech is narrower than "everything". Doesn't that mean that, if there were the will to do it, free speech could be reinterpreted (by the supreme…

You're correct about the mechanism through which that could happen — if the Supreme Court decided it so, they could certainly narrow the first amendment protections for hate speech. But it's incredibly unlikely that would happen any time soon, as it would be in contradiction of many many years of free speech jurisprudence — not an expert but Brandenburg v. Ohio seems to get brought up a lot in this context.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#192

Post by throwaway_USD »

daenz wrote: post #62
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It’s apples and oranges. Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. The actions of private companies on private property (virtual or otherwise) are an entirely different domain than government intervention. Even if you remove the censorship angle, it can be argued that moderating hate speech is simply good business sense. Pe…

>Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. While I agree, please direct me to where I can speak "in the public domain" online.

>While I agree, please direct me to where I can speak "in the public domain" online.

Same place as with pre-online TV and radio I suppose.

Free speech doesn't guarantee you an audience at the time and place of your choosing.

Take public buildings like a Courthouse or City hall, sure you have Free Speech rights, but good luck interrupting a court hearing to get your message out (without being held in contempt by the Judge (the government) and thrown in jail). Or try getting your message out at mid-night when the building is closed.

Then as others have said, what is stopping you from registering your own domain and posting your message there? If the government infringing your rights in that regard?

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#193

Post by pfraze »

root_axis wrote: post #183
pfraze wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's newsworthy because there's a pretty significant debate occurring in the US about how private companies can moderate speech in their spaces. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is being actively relitigated by both parties (though it's not clear yet if anything will come of it).

> Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is being actively relitigated by both parties I feel like I am taking crazy pills. We're talking about the creator of a video game banning the confederate flag in-game, we are a long way off from free speech rights in the supposed public square of a private enterprise. In what world can you imagine video game creators not being able to determine what kind of content is…

> I don't feel convinced that this is anything other than aggrieved culture warriors trying to make something mundane into a controversy.

I don't wholly disagree, my point is that the culture war is hot right now over this specific topic and that's why it's news-worthy.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#194

Post by dragonwriter »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #59
sacks2k wrote: post #26

I'm curious why the confederate flag should get special treatment. I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? Every flag represents a group that has been in the losing side of a war and killed opposing citizens or soldiers. Yet, those flags aren't banned.

> I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? Given the treatment of slavery in both the Republic of Texas and the Empire of Mexico back then, I would say that you may not need to be offended about it.

> Given the treatment of slavery in both the Republic of Texas and the Empire of Mexico back then

Neither Mexican Empire was contemporaneous with the Texas revolution or Republic. The first Empire was earlier, the second Empire was later, roughly contemporary to the US Civil War.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#195

Post by [deleted] »

Hamuko wrote: post #25
i_am_proteus wrote: post #4

Interesting that the Japanese rising sun flag is mentioned alongside the swastika and the stars and bars; the rising sun flag remains in contemporary use by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

Yeah, I don't really understand that. Would they also ban anyone for adding the insignia for United States Army Air Forces? What about writing "Enola Gay" on the side of a car?

[deleted]

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#196

Post by andrewzah »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #4

Interesting that the Japanese rising sun flag is mentioned alongside the swastika and the stars and bars; the rising sun flag remains in contemporary use by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

> the rising sun flag remains in contemporary use by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

And it causes relations issues between Japan and South Korea.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-japan-flag/jap...

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-17/japan-...

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#197

Post by williamgrant »

jfengel wrote: post #166
gentleman11 wrote: post #52

I am not very familiar with the American civil war. The way people talk about it seems weird to me though: it is as though the entire southern United States were overcome by an irresistible race hatred and they started a war in order to ensure their white supremacy- but mostly out of ignorance of the morals of this. I have a hard time believing the entire southern United States was only fighting for the right to own…

The declarations of secession are very explicit that it was about racism and slavery. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declarati... The racism wasn't a sudden thing. What was new was the movement to ban slavery, especially in new states, which would undo the political balance that had been put in the Constitution from the beginning. (The Constitution still gives extra power to those states.) The ele…

Thanks for posting this, I had not previously read the declarations.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#198

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

justinsaccount wrote: post #125
magnusmagnusson wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This slope isn't particularly sloppy" is the single best reply capturing the delusion and dishonesty of the people who celebrate the limiting of speech and expression heere. At least admit it proudly, that you are placing a punishment on vocalbulary and imposing self-censorship and thus invading privacy too. All these masks attempting to cover-up reduction of politics to friend/enemy distinction are even more insult…

> reduction of politics to friend/enemy distinction There was a war about this. The enemies of the United States waved that flag.

No more WWII games with nazis...god forbid someone sees a swastika /s

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#199

Post by Yetanfou »

katbyte wrote: post #13
pathseeker wrote: post #7

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

Yes - we have them here in Canada and I’m a huge fan. Say whatever you want but you should be held responsible for you words.

[flagged]

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#200

Post by krapp »

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #198
justinsaccount wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reduction of politics to friend/enemy distinction There was a war about this. The enemies of the United States waved that flag.

No more WWII games with nazis...god forbid someone sees a swastika /s

Even Germany allows the swastika when presented in a historical context in artistic or educational works, come on.
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