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MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#51

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

This isn’t censorship.

That wasn't the question.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#52
I am not very familiar with the American civil war. The way people talk about it seems weird to me though: it is as though the entire southern United States were overcome by an irresistible race hatred and they started a war in order to ensure their white supremacy- but mostly out of ignorance of the morals of this.

I have a hard time believing the entire southern United States was only fighting for the right to own slaves. Wasn’t that a factor that was emphasized later? What other reasons were there for the war? (Considering the slavery issue though, thank goodness they lost)

Edit: thanks for the responses. I couldn’t have imagined the pro-slavery position was so outspoken and blatant, it’s a bit of a culture shock. Economic incentives are perverse

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#53
post #42
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - we have them here in Canada and I’m a huge fan. Say whatever you want but you should be held responsible for you words.

My family lived in a place where they were responsible for their words. I can tell you it was not fun. Everybody is a huge fan until those laws turn against them.

This applies to most laws. People are hypocrites about everything, all the time. Laws that hurt people I don't like are good. Laws that hurt me are bad. Even if it's the same law. The point is, that's not a good argument against a law.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, that'd be a good outcome for the confederate flag. Where does it end?

At a point which is beyond the confederate flag. There may well be a slippery slope somewhere along this road, but it's not here. Gun advocates resist common sense reforms with the same logic, but lots of military weapons (minigun, flamethrower, rocket launcher, etc) are already either banned or highly regulated and have been for years without anyone's rights having been trampled.

What do you think of the counterargument about statues? A few years ago, the idea that removing Confederate statues might lead to removing statues of founding fathers was considered an absurd slippery slope argument; a few days ago, the New York Times published an opinion piece arguing that statues of George Washington should be torn down. How can we be confident that this isn't a step down that same slope?

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#55
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, that'd be a good outcome for the confederate flag. Where does it end?

Like most European countries today? This slope doesn’t seem particularly slippy

You mean countries where you can be arrested for a tweet that offends someone? Yeah, no thanks.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#56

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

Very soon even Facebook likes will be illegal in Germany if it's the "wrong" ones by the way. That law passed a week ago or two.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#57

What next? Tibetan flags? Uighur flags? Palestinian flags? Basque flags? Chechen flags? Israeli flags? South vietnamese flags? Taiwan flags? Dominion of Newfoundland flags? Black nationalist flags? Who's the judge?

For sure, you are I are not. Racial justice activists are.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#58
post #26

I'm curious why the confederate flag should get special treatment. I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? Every flag represents a group that has been in the losing side of a war and killed opposing citizens or soldiers. Yet, those flags aren't banned.

Without digging too deeply into semiotic philosophy, symbols are also defined by those who use them. 99% of people brandishing Nazi flags have horrific views, and use the flag to show their allegiance to those views, so we prefer people not to brandish them. Same thing for confederate flags

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#59
post #26

I'm curious why the confederate flag should get special treatment. I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? Every flag represents a group that has been in the losing side of a war and killed opposing citizens or soldiers. Yet, those flags aren't banned.

> I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it?

Given the treatment of slavery in both the Republic of Texas and the Empire of Mexico back then, I would say that you may not need to be offended about it.

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