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Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

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Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#151

Post by baddox »

voisin wrote: post #103
kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

> Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. I don’t think this is correct. I only ever get emails coincident with the renewal letting me know what my credit card was charged. Never in advance.

Perhaps you only have subscriptions directly from Apple? Apple seems to treat its own subscriptions differently. For my iCloud subscription I just get monthly receipts after each billing.

But for third-party subscriptions, I get an email with subject "Your Subscription is Expiring" a few days before each billing, then a receipt after each billing.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#152

Post by vmateixeira »

thoraway1010 wrote: post #122
black_puppydog wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* consistently user hostile

Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, cli…

Just because there's worse, does that mean bad is good?

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#153

Post by ceejayoz »

vmateixeira wrote: post #152
thoraway1010 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, cli…

Just because there's worse, does that mean bad is good?

There's something to be said for a floor on how bad it can be.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#154

Post by radley »

rideontime wrote: post #55

Worked on an app that tried the same thing - new users were immediately granted a free month of the "premium" membership on our own backend. The exec who came up with the idea literally called it the "drug dealer" approach - "the first hit is free" - and the user couldn't see the pricing until their trial expired and they tried to enable one of those premium features again, at which point they'd see the subscription…

Bait and switch would only apply if the app claimed to be "free" instead of "free trial", or if the "trial" part was obfuscated.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#155

Post by Frost1x »

baddox wrote: post #150
Frost1x wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder which you're more likely to pay for: a subscription you intend to cancel or having something free shift to an expense? From my experience, even with due diligence and setting up calendar event notifications, I've missed a few subscription cancelations I intended. On the other hand, whenever I use something free, I always proceed under the assumption it can shift to a pay for service/product at some point in…

I don't think Apple is intending to cover the "subscription you intend to cancel" case. When you start a free trial for a paid subscription in an iPhone app, you have to do a normal payment authorization which looks almost exactly the same as an instant payment authorization. If you have no intention of paying for a subscription and you don't think you can remember to cancel the subscription before the free trial end…

That's not the case I was describing. By intend to cancel, I mean during the free trial period. However, how is a "subscription you intend to cancel" case different from a "free trial you decided you didn't like and forgot to cancel" case, as far as paid subscription management?

For example, CBS All Access had a free trial a few months back which had Picard on it. The monthly fee was nominal and it looked like they had a few shows I might like so I entered the free trial period. After finishing Picard, I tried a few other offerings from the service during the free trial and realized none of them were to my satisfaction. Therefore, I intended to cancel but forgot. Surprise, next monthly billing cycle I see a charge on my card.

So, if the point of the use case of a free trial period is to offer a free trial to evaluate a service and decide if you'd like to continue but prevent you from paying a fee to "test drive," then the upfront payment authorization fails at this for many people who don't instantly cancel the second they decide they don't or may not want the service (but aren't sure yet), or be sure to do so before the free trial ends.

All and all, I would argue the up front authorization free trial case often grabs a subset of the free trial accounts into a full cycle of payment. It also likely grabs those less attentive to longer periods of payment for services they're not using. So free trials are often crafted to prey on these situations, which I typically tend to avoid.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#156

Post by taurath »

rideontime wrote: post #55

Worked on an app that tried the same thing - new users were immediately granted a free month of the "premium" membership on our own backend. The exec who came up with the idea literally called it the "drug dealer" approach - "the first hit is free" - and the user couldn't see the pricing until their trial expired and they tried to enable one of those premium features again, at which point they'd see the subscription…

One other reason is it gives people an opportunity to pay for the product off of the app store platform. Apple wants to be the one to manage your free trials on their platform, otherwise people could implement paywalls to sign up through a site that doesn't give apple 30% of revenue.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#157

Post by northerdome »

josho wrote: post #44
northerdome wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have forgotten to cancel subscriptions from iTunes a few times as I tend to watch my CC statement for forgotten subscriptions, not Apple Free Trial emails. The real issue is that they make it impossible to get a refund once you as a customer have been charged even when the app developer agrees to give you one. Being forced to delegate billing to a robotic corporation that treats your customers like robots is a terr…

> they make it impossible to get a refund Is this your personal experience? I’ve previously received refunds for purchases and movie rentals. It required an email but also gave me confidence that if I ever bought an app that was junk that I’d get a refund.

It has been my personal experience. I bought You Need a budget and forget to cancel before the trial ended. YNAB support was awesome but told me I needed to contact Apple as they processed the payment. It took a while to find the right contact form on Apple's site to get a hold of a representative. I was told per their terms and conditions I could not be given a refund despite having documentation of YNAB agreeing that I should get one. I finally had to speak with a "Senior Specialist" who was able to process my refund after a long period of me not taking no for an answer.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#158

Post by sidibe »

yyyk wrote: post #91
iandanforth wrote: post #11

The comments here read like people with Stockholm syndrome.

What is unique to some Apple fans, that it's not enough for to merely deny bugs and criticism, they also often personally attack the messenger. Other companies have bugs which they promise to fix someday; Apple doesn't have any bugs or problematic behaviour and it's your fault if you have any issues. There isn't a thread on HN about Apple without this behaviour. Either this is an unofficial Apple PR guideline or a sy…

Another company where customers have very strong loyalty and will stand up for whatever stance the company takes is Tesla.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#159

Post by t-writescode »

black_puppydog wrote: post #113
pbreit wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Apple is providing a consistent customer experience for enrolling, free trialing, auto-billing and canceling.

* consistently user hostile

Compare to the competition and historical dark patterns around subscriptions, this is very user friendly.

I’m sure you’re familiar with gym membership cancellation? That’s not limited to gyms. This may not be the absolute best, but it’s way, way better than the worst.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#160

Post by wtetzner »

csunbird wrote: post #123
black_puppydog wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* consistently user hostile

What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. If the app does not deliver what it claims with the subscription, I can trust Apple to dispute it. For example, there are a couple of apps that offer subscription and amazing deals out of in-app purchases, but I simply refuse to subscribe that kind of applications, because there are a lot…

> What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached.

Sure, and that's great. But why can't subscriptions be opt-in after a free trial, instead of opt-out? They can still send an email with a "Subscribe" button instead of a "Cancel" button. I would argue that's much more user-friendly.

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