Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#101

Post by tikkabhuna » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #83

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

Personally, I avoid signing up for things all the time that have auto billing after trials. I try out a ton of services and the overhead of tracking them all on a calendar is just not worth it. A simple pop up could make everybody happy if it was indeed user friendly: “would you like to begin your subscription automatically after the trial?” Also, in terms of consent and automated systems generally, explicit opt in i…

From my experience with iOS subscriptions you can cancel immediately in the App Store and your trial will continue until the original date.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#102

Post by grawprog » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

So, forcing me to supply payment information for a free trial, then forcing the developer to make my free trial an auto subscription unless I opt-out is supposed to be user friendly?

In what way is assuming you can take my money unless I say otherwise just because I used a free trial supposed to be user-friendly?

I'm so unbelievabley tired of these anti-consumer practices being labelled as 'user friendly' or 'working as intended'. They are not user friendly and sure they're working as intended, to extract money from you. At least tell it like it is, an accountant realized they made more money this way and told the marketers to sell that shit.

There is zero benefit to me as a user by making me opt out of paying a company money.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#103

Post by voisin » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

> Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription.

I don’t think this is correct. I only ever get emails coincident with the renewal letting me know what my credit card was charged. Never in advance.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#104

Post by jordansmith » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #83

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

Personally, I avoid signing up for things all the time that have auto billing after trials. I try out a ton of services and the overhead of tracking them all on a calendar is just not worth it. A simple pop up could make everybody happy if it was indeed user friendly: “would you like to begin your subscription automatically after the trial?” Also, in terms of consent and automated systems generally, explicit opt in i…

Don’t really need to track trials, I always just instantly cancel the subscription. You still get to use the site/software until your trial expires and then you’re not billed.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#105

Post by Y_Y » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #88

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

Risk free trials are a terrible experience. If the customer just wants to demo the app, why should they have to remember to log into their Apple account and cancel the trial? With saas offerings, I won’t even sign up for a trial if it requires billing information from me.

Risk is a pretty crap game anyway.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#106

Post by radley » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #99

radley wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is forcing a yoga app to do opt-out billing instead of opt-in. That's anti-user-friendly.

After watching my mother confusedly agree to $7/week billing in an app she downloaded to play with her cat, I'm not convinced Apple is in the business of helping users make optimal billing decisions with clarity. The least the App Store could do is give notifications (not just email) for monthly billing and notifications for "You are now paying $7/week and will be charged " (Click to go to a screen that will let you…

All of that is the result of opt-out.

Imagine if Apple was enforcing opt-in (with a free trial). None of that would have happened.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#107

Post by rgovostes » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #103

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

> Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. I don’t think this is correct. I only ever get emails coincident with the renewal letting me know what my credit card was charged. Never in advance.

They do notify me 30 days before my iCloud storage plan renews, with clear instructions on canceling it. They also offer a grace period if I forget to cancel before.

I wouldn't like renewal reminders every month for my services but I think it makes sense to do something similar to iCloud renewal notices in a few scenarios: for long-term (e.g., annual) subscriptions, for expensive subscriptions, and for the first few billings of a user's first subscription (so they get used to it).

It's also easy to "report a problem" from the receipt e-mail for the renewal, and while there's no stated policy of doing so, I think they would refund an undesired renewal. They even have an option on the form, "I did not intend to renew subscription(s)."

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#108

Post by cbhl » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

One of the things I really like about the iOS subscription billing ecosystem is that there is one centralized place to see all my subscriptions.

I hate that it's hidden behind four clicks in "Settings", but, once you find it, it's very nice to be able to have one place to go "oh yeah I should unsubscribe from that crossword app I haven't opened in three months". By comparison, for other sites, I have to go find my username/password in a login manager...

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#109

Post by unmole » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

cbhl wrote: post #108

One of the things I really like about the iOS subscription billing ecosystem is that there is one centralized place to see all my subscriptions. I hate that it's hidden behind four clicks in "Settings", but, once you find it, it's very nice to be able to have one place to go "oh yeah I should unsubscribe from that crossword app I haven't opened in three months". By comparison, for other sites, I have to go find my us…

Isn't it exactly the same with Google/Android?

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#110

Post by pbreit » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

Right. I think Apple's intent is the opposite of what the developer is suggesting. Apple is conditioning customers to manage subscriptions, including easy cancelation, in app store.