California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste • Hacker News Board

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#481

Post by entha_saava » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:19 PM UTC

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #375

entha_saava wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you witness such extreme casteism? Ok that wasn't much clear. Things like untouchability or fights between castes aren't there. And while in-caste marriage etc.. are a thing, that's not exactly discrimination thing. Eg: there are multiple sub groups in Brahmins based on origin and while they don't have 'lower' 'higher', the marriages are preferred to be within that sub groups because each of them have dis…

Why not let the two people getting married make the decision if they want to merge the two cultures? I do not ask this rhetorically. I am Indian, though raised in America with very liberal parents. I have a cousin in India who can not get married to her boyfriend because his mother won't accept a marriage to someone who speaks a slightly different language. Both are similar caste, same religion, just from different p…

In India, you don't ask elders "why?" for anything they tell you to do, that's considered disrespect - whether it is parents or teachers. That's why many customs that made sense once upon a time, have morphed into meaningless ones, because they continued by tradition rather than understanding.

At the time marriages were arranged by parents, this made sense because you get to preserve your culture, traditions, language etc.. (in a situation where dialect depends on the place and caste).

> Why not let the two people getting married make the decision if they want to merge the two cultures?

Well that's insane. Maybe, thinking from the place of those elders who are highly interested in conserving their culture, it doesn't make sense to leave everyone to their own causing a mix-mash of different cultures and interests, and that's the generation gap. Although it is more likely attributed to belief rather than such line of thinking.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#482

Post by wobbly_bush » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

rpiguy wrote: post #401

As an American I never really understood how bad the caste system was until I went to an Indian restaurant and arrived a few minutes before it opened for dinner. The owner, an Indian gentlemen, invited me into the restaurant rather than making me wait until it opened. He was exceedingly polite and even offered me a complimentary cup of tea while I waited for the restaurant to open. Then he barked something in an Indi…

> I didn't realize until after I left the restaurant that the Indian family who owned the restaurant probably brought their lower caste servants from India with them to labor at the restaurant.

Are you sure what you saw was caste discrimination? It may have been a person taking advantage of an illegal immigrant, something that several people and companies in the US are accused of every year.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#483

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #326

randomguy2379 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was born a lower caste hindu, I don't really mind the british caste system at all. Because the british caste system is fluid. If you are born to servant parents and study hard to become a doctor, you end up at the top of the caste system. Not in Hinduism. Even if you become a doctor, but were born a dalit(lowest caste), you will remain a dalit and so will your future generations. There is no escape fro…

Becoming a doctor does not make you upper class in the UK. You can't really become upper class, at least in the traditional sense - certainly not through a job or money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kin... e.g. David Cameron, Eton educated prime-minister, described himself as middle class. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25744526 Edit: You could argue that everyone is middle class thes…

But I just love watching Parliament in session; especially The Prime Minister's Questions.

Those toffs can absolutely shred you, while complimenting you the entire time.

It's watching the English language being wielded as a weapon.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#484

Post by shripadk » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

anandrm wrote: post #353

entha_saava wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go to r/india to see that. That sub is peak irrational leftism. And people generalizing Brahmins and other upper castes as oppressors are not exactly right. For many of us who are Brahmin by caste but have a rural, agriculture etc.. background otherwise, we have not witnessed such extreme casteism. Disclaimer: Brahmin by caste / surname but my community is traditionally agriculturist.

Lets put it this way , you guys had the privilege. AFAIK atleast 2 generations ahead with the reading and writing compared to other communites. Please dnt pick exceptions here. The community had a headstart privilege access to reading and writing. If you look at the data of professors here in US and the first generation of guys in US doing higher studies you know. So you have a community base here . Its the same with…

> AFAIK atleast 2 generations ahead with the reading and writing compared to other communites

Can you explain then why Dr. Ambedkar asked for only 10 years of caste-based reservations and to be done with it after that? Did he not know of this statistic when he asked for the reservation to be scrapped after 10 years: https://www.deccanchronicle.com/opinion/columnists/290917/ti... ?

We continued to have caste-based reservation for 70+ years. That is almost 3 generations. We are well into the 4th generation. This is more than sufficient time for uplifting lower castes. And let us not forget that access to education and industry has improved exponentially in this period while it wasn't available previously.

The time has now come to move away from caste-based reservations to income based reservations. For how long will we keep enforcing caste in everything? Then the upper castes will also enforce undeclared caste based reservations in private sector because they did not get the same treatment in Government sector. Isn't it? This will just end up being a never ending process of one trying to out-do the other. You now have political parties specifically oriented around Dalit issues like the Bahujan Samajwadi Party. Do you have a political party specifically oriented around Brahmin issues? Nope. This shows that the system has empowered the lower castes well enough already! So we can now move to empowering the actual downtrodden in society: no matter what caste, creed or religion they belong to!

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#485

Post by entha_saava » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

mako254 wrote: post #466

entha_saava wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For over 2 millenia dalits were not even allowed to enter schools or gain education. I agree. But reservation as it is in practice currently is rather a knee jerk reaction and not a scientific system. The problem with all these SJW "empowerment" plans is they empower the people who are already empowered. A retired judge told that the only way to ensure reservation won't be misused is restricting it to one member in…

This is the biggest fallacy peddled by upper castes against reservation/quotas and to deny that caste discrimination in India. Reservations in India are not meant to equalize income or opportunities among the castes. They are meant to keep the government machinery unbiased against the 'lower' castes through representation - so that their services are not biased against lower caste citizens. It has nothing to do with…

Fuck, does that mean you can ignore merit and let the guy who grew up with more privileges and less qualifications still get better opportunities than one with better qualifications just because the former is from a caste that is oppressed by someone else somewhere else? This will just increase dissatisfaction among non-reserved castes and reinforce the discrimination.

Even then, what is wrong with the retired judge's suggestion I mentioned?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#486

Post by gumby » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #454

You need to put them on notice for not speaking English at an American company. They need to learn this is America. Call them out and escalate up your management chain if they don’t stop. It’s extremely unprofessional and egregious to speak in another language that other people cannot understand in a business context.

“Put them on notice”? “American company”? What century is this?

There are innumerable businesses in the USA where groups of people speak different languages together. I routinely speak Spanish with people in stores, car repair places, farms etc and most of them seem to be US citizens simply more comfortable in Spanish than English. Why shouldn’t US citizens use the language they want? (BTW I come from a country where I’d be shocked if even 1% had ever overheard a sentence in Spanish).

Years ago I worked at a research lab in Texas where some of the scientists would discuss things together in Spanish unless someone who didn’t speak it was in the room. Nobody seemed at all perturbed by this. Before that I worked at a government research lab in France where it was not uncommon to have stretches of discussion in English when discussing, say, a research paper in that language. Why not?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#487

Post by 0x8BADF00D » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #480

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #454

You need to put them on notice for not speaking English at an American company. They need to learn this is America. Call them out and escalate up your management chain if they don’t stop. It’s extremely unprofessional and egregious to speak in another language that other people cannot understand in a business context.

I think they are in India lol. Even if they were in the US, they can speak any language they damn well please. And I think they might be talking about speaking English anyway, since different regions may have different accents in English as well.

I parsed the comment as his manager playing favorites by speaking in a language the team doesn’t understand or isn’t fluent in.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#488

Post by wobbly_bush » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #390

Question coming from a position of ignorance: how does someone know what caste you’re in if you are applying for a job in the US?

The name gives it away most of the times.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#489

Post by magicnubs » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

anandrm wrote: post #246

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

I guess this does not stop in Jobs but also in VC Funding . Most VCs/Seed funds are run by few upper caste Indians . They do have discrimination if you come from a backward caste . if you belong to the same caste , chances of getting a fund are more .

What is a "backward caste"? Haven't heard this term before

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#490

Post by 0x8BADF00D » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #486

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #454

You need to put them on notice for not speaking English at an American company. They need to learn this is America. Call them out and escalate up your management chain if they don’t stop. It’s extremely unprofessional and egregious to speak in another language that other people cannot understand in a business context.

“Put them on notice”? “American company”? What century is this? There are innumerable businesses in the USA where groups of people speak different languages together. I routinely speak Spanish with people in stores, car repair places, farms etc and most of them seem to be US citizens simply more comfortable in Spanish than English. Why shouldn’t US citizens use the language they want? (BTW I come from a country where…

It would be highly unusual to run meetings like standup where nobody else spoke the language two people were talking in. It’s different if they’re talking outside of a meeting.