California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste • Hacker News Board

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#371

Post by michaelt » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:08 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #351

ethbro wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any discrimination and groupthink seems intensified in workplaces with (1) little reassignment, (2) long tenures, & (3) little external, objective performance feedback. E.g. government and many portions of academia. People who don't support it leave, and people who are ambivalent adopt the attitudes of their remaining colleagues.

I don't think that performance feedback or reassignment has necessarily anything to do with it. Would you like to be frequently reassigned at your job? I don't know many people who would. Yes, all these things might create entrenched groups, but make working viable in many occupations in the first place. I would take the groupthink in that case too.

In a company that is successful and growing, with new teams and projects and offices, there will be more promotion opportunities per candidate - and fewer situations where they have several strong candidates and an almost-arbitrary choice to make between them.

If you're in a sector that isn't growing, or might even be shrinking, I imagine promotions are a lot more competitive...

Admittedly, 'reassignment' might not be the most precise term for this...

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#372

Post by sbmthakur » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:08 PM UTC

entha_saava wrote: post #304

randomguy2379 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a brahmin would point out that he is brahmin TWICE in his comment. We know that you are a brahmin and feel 'proud' of your caste. You sir, are the reason why casteism exists in India.

That's a disclaimer, someone may miss that 'some of us' part while reading and think I am saying that as an outsider. You are the anti-brahmin hypocrite generalizing your experience with some of them to blame them. People like you are why there is still lot of SJW bullshit in India. A person with ½ of my competetive exam scores, and double the income easily gets a seat in NIT because reservation based on caste. The g…

> A person with ½ of my competetive exam scores, and double the income easily gets a seat in NIT because reservation based on caste. The generalization that all upper caste people are oppressors and all lower caste people are oppressed is wrong.

Just wait for it. Even certain 'upper castes' have now started getting reservation and getting a seat on a merit in the open category is only going to get more difficult. Certain states have already crossed the 50% reservation limit set by the Supreme court[1][2][3]. So much for Supreme court's power.

While this has happened at the state level, it's only a matter of time that these demands will go to the national level.

1. https://www.news18.com/news/india/reservation-for-economical...

2. https://www.thequint.com/news/india/mapping-quotas-how-india...

3. https://m.timesofindia.com/t10-nov-30-2018/1-what-happened-t....

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#373

Post by srean » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:15 PM UTC

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #136

olcor wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eating that tortilla since it contains lard I'm not a Brahmin (and am technically from a much "lower caste") and I wouldn't eat lard (I'm a vegetarian). IMO caste and vegetarianism are different concepts. While certain castes/communities/regions might promote vegetarianism and some might not, I'm not sure if they're always an identifying marker. A lot of people in India are vegetarian for a multitude of reasons and…

It's not 1:1, but there's a clear correlation. To caricature a bit, the Brahmins at the top of the hierarchy can afford to have an elaborate "pure" vegetarian diet with lots of ghee etc (the Jains, mentioned earlier, even exclude root vegetables that would kill the plant), somewhere around the middle of the pile you start eating animals because you need to get your protein where you can, and at the very bottom are th…

That would not capture Bengali and Kerala brahmins. In Kerala its kosher and common for a brahmins to have beef. Meat is a regular part of diet of Bengali brahmins, to the extent that they can afford it.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#374

Post by watwut » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:16 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #371

raxxorrax wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that performance feedback or reassignment has necessarily anything to do with it. Would you like to be frequently reassigned at your job? I don't know many people who would. Yes, all these things might create entrenched groups, but make working viable in many occupations in the first place. I would take the groupthink in that case too.

In a company that is successful and growing, with new teams and projects and offices, there will be more promotion opportunities per candidate - and fewer situations where they have several strong candidates and an almost-arbitrary choice to make between them. If you're in a sector that isn't growing, or might even be shrinking, I imagine promotions are a lot more competitive... Admittedly, 'reassignment' might not b…

The issue is not lack of possible promotions. The issue is who the opportunities goes to. In a growing company, the friends, family and "one of us" will still be more likely to be get the good stuff.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#375

Post by reverend_gonzo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:19 PM UTC

entha_saava wrote: post #307

42_ wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dude, why would you witness such extreme casteism? Its like being White in the US and saying I don't see any racism.

> why would you witness such extreme casteism? Ok that wasn't much clear. Things like untouchability or fights between castes aren't there. And while in-caste marriage etc.. are a thing, that's not exactly discrimination thing. Eg: there are multiple sub groups in Brahmins based on origin and while they don't have 'lower' 'higher', the marriages are preferred to be within that sub groups because each of them have dis…

Why not let the two people getting married make the decision if they want to merge the two cultures?

I do not ask this rhetorically. I am Indian, though raised in America with very liberal parents. I have a cousin in India who can not get married to her boyfriend because his mother won't accept a marriage to someone who speaks a slightly different language. Both are similar caste, same religion, just from different parts of India.

That is absolutely batshit insane.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#376

Post by Jayakumark » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:20 PM UTC

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

100% agreed, I worked for a big 3 Letter Corp and heard manager speaking in his native language of the State (same as the company was located) to another member of team from same State, saying please work a little and i will promote you as a manager ,who will i do it for, if not for you. In the meantime, we were working our ass off and got nothing.

Its there for real, you can easily see it - If you join a multinational company and find a team with more than 50% of people are from same State - There is something going on. First thing that should be banned in india is attaching Caste as the Last Name.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#377

Post by arkades » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:20 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #369

richrichardsson wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst FGM is absolutely abhorrent, I really can't stand how MGM (or circumcision without any medical need for it) is happily accepted in "Western values". I can accept that circumcision is a medical need in some cases (my brother required it, something he elected to have done in his late teens), but I can't accept the double standard of "it's fine to chop parts off a baby boy without his consent because it's a part…

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks.

Not exactly.

The AAP has waffled for years, putting their thumb on the scales of every guideline to include a “cultural factor” to the cost- benefit analysis which is literally “but people really want this for religious reasons.” They generally aimed for neutral, until the 2012 task force statement.

Accordingly, if you look up their most recent position statement (2012) they headline with “benefits outweigh risks.” But if you go -into- the actual statement they phrase it more delicately:

“ Although health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns, the benefits of circumcision are sufficient to justify access to this procedure for families choosing it and to warrant third-party payment for circumcision of male newborns.”

The benefits are sufficient to -still ask insurers to pay for it-. If health benefits -actually- outweighed risks, they’d recommend it for all infants routinely.

Accordingly, they got raked over the coals by pediatric organizations outside the US, which aren’t accustomed to cosmetic circumcision:

“ To these authors, only 1 of the arguments put forward by the American Academy of Pediatrics has some theoretical relevance in relation to infant male circumcision; namely, the possible protection against urinary tract infections in infant boys, which can easily be treated with antibiotics without tissue loss. The other claimed health benefits, including protection against HIV/AIDS, genital herpes, genital warts, and penile cancer, are questionable, weak, and likely to have little public health relevance in a Western context, and they do not represent compelling reasons for surgery before boys are old enough to decide for themselves.” (https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/796?utm...)

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#378

Post by _tw9j » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:23 PM UTC

Jayakumark wrote: post #376

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

100% agreed, I worked for a big 3 Letter Corp and heard manager speaking in his native language of the State (same as the company was located) to another member of team from same State, saying please work a little and i will promote you as a manager ,who will i do it for, if not for you. In the meantime, we were working our ass off and got nothing. Its there for real, you can easily see it - If you join a multination…

I agree but people will still discriminate.

People think I am south indian even when speaking in northish accent. They make many implicit assumption based on how I behave, talk and look.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#379

Post by nigerian1981 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:25 PM UTC

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

I guess the difference is that Dalits are much less likely to be in a position of influence or power

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#380

Post by sbmthakur » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:26 PM UTC

scandox wrote: post #215

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Curious what extreme left ideology looks like in India.

We have Naxalites and Maoists who have been fighting the Indian state for quite sometime now[1]. They are allegedly funded by China[2].

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite%E2%80%93Maoist_insu...

2. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/story/chinese-intellig...