411–420 of 452 posts
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> Here in Europe, €30K would already be a good starting salary. Personally, 10 years in, I don't expect to reach €80k. That's on par with engineers in any other discipline. Except those have a Masters, not just a bootcamp.
Well in the Paris region, as an additional data point people with a master degree from rather good engineering schools get 35K - 45K euro.
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>we don't get fancy titles Some people get titles like "code ninja", although I suppose "fancy" isn't really the right word for that.
Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.
The entrepreneurial disruption mentality historically has been a "we are sick of your bullcrap and trappings, you idiots haven't been listening so we'll start our own".
That it has worked repeatedly and utterly devestated many titans corporations run by "professional" men in suits effectively validated their iconoclasm and rejection of the standards of old. It may be arrogance but there were enough validating moments to understand why.
Suits have taken on a negative connotation. It is implicitly seen as hidebound dinosaurdom and an admission of form over function. Sort of an assumption that if they are wearing a fancy suit then they are an empty suit.
I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…
Say an adjunct professor who makes less would be considered higher status than a mining CEO of a multimillion dollar company. In the US the CEO would be higher status without question - even if some may frown upon their business practices.
Computer science is still a relatively young field so looking for status within the traditional framework would be a mistake akin to sneering at the pioneers of the industrial revolution for getting rich through practical means rather than conquest or rents.
A few observations I have seen(US Based): - In college there were basically no women in any of my classes, like 1 or 2 in a class of 30-40. Not having an entire gender being interested in a field(generally speaking) makes numbers overall very low. - In a Java class I took in college, it was standing room only for the first two sessions, after 3 weeks the class was 70% reduced, by the end of the class it was about 25%…
>In college there were basically no women in any of my classes, like 1 or 2 in a class of 30-40 In high school, about half my AP CS class was girls, I think. Maybe it's not so much that "an entire gender" is disinterested but that there was a tidal wave of people who wanted to get into programming after 2000 who were mostly male and changed the culture? And a lot of people, who were good at other things besides compu…
My brother did CS as well (mid-1980s). There might have been only one female in his year. There might have been more, but he never spoke about them that I can remember.
I suspect the gender bias has been around for a long time.
Can we talk about how much more CS people are expected to work than people in other fields ? For most people here, CS is their hobby. So a lot of learning and knowledge acquisition happens during 'leisure' time. This is rarely the case in other professions. If we count all the time we spend resolving environments, getting setups right, learning new tools and reading papers as work (as we rightly should), then most pe…
But I've never had a manager ask or pressure me to work more than 40 hours a week. In fact, they opposite is true, they've actually often discouraged me from working outside of core work hours because they don't want their developers to get burned out. Maybe I'm just fortunate that I'm smart enough, and productive enough, to get everything done in the 40 hour work week and I should feel blessed to be as smart as I am? (generally in the top 3-5% on all standardized tests throughout my life)
But to the best of my knowledge, my coworkers weren't being pressured to work more than 40 hours a week either. Or maybe they felt ashamed of having to work more than 40 hours to keep up and didn't mention it? Maybe the pressure wasn't direct pressure from management, but an indirect pressure just to keep up with everyone else?
Maybe it's the benefit of working in the Midwest?
I don't honestly know. But I can say that in my (short) time at both companies I've worked for, I've only met one developer that reported being asked or pressured to work more than 40 hours a week. So it just seems so strange to me to keep hearing it as a truism on here.
A few observations I have seen(US Based): - In college there were basically no women in any of my classes, like 1 or 2 in a class of 30-40. Not having an entire gender being interested in a field(generally speaking) makes numbers overall very low. - In a Java class I took in college, it was standing room only for the first two sessions, after 3 weeks the class was 70% reduced, by the end of the class it was about 25%…
A few observations I have seen(US Based): - In college there were basically no women in any of my classes, like 1 or 2 in a class of 30-40. Not having an entire gender being interested in a field(generally speaking) makes numbers overall very low. - In a Java class I took in college, it was standing room only for the first two sessions, after 3 weeks the class was 70% reduced, by the end of the class it was about 25%…
> In a Java class I took in college, it was standing room only for the first two sessions, after 3 weeks the class was 70% reduced, by the end of the class it was about 25% of its original size. CS is hard, lets be honest(for most people), to excel you have to love it or be mathematically inclined. I don't understand how a college survives 75% of their students dropping out like that? And do they not interview and as…
I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…
1: You must overcome the immediate uber-nerd stereotype by being in relatively good shape and having basic social skills (small talk)
2: You need to give people a minute to google "average software developer salary"
Sure, you won't have the social cache of a Doctor, but I'd say it puts you pretty high in the social hierarchy based on personal experience.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In college there were basically no women in any of my classes, like 1 or 2 in a class of 30-40 In high school, about half my AP CS class was girls, I think. Maybe it's not so much that "an entire gender" is disinterested but that there was a tidal wave of people who wanted to get into programming after 2000 who were mostly male and changed the culture? And a lot of people, who were good at other things besides compu…
I don't think it's a post-2000s thing. In a year where hundreds graduated with a CS degree, I think there might have been around 15 females in my year (1994). My brother did CS as well (mid-1980s). There might have been only one female in his year. There might have been more, but he never spoke about them that I can remember. I suspect the gender bias has been around for a long time.
https://images.techhive.com/images/idge/imported/article/ctw...
There has been a gender bias, but it has been getting progressively worse over time.
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Interestingly, there was almost no bullying in my high school in Poland in the nineties. I think school bullying may be a product of Anglo-Saxxon culture, which is very individualistic, success oriented (i.e. if you're a "loser" you're barely a human being) and also kind of heartless. Currently, as Poland converges to the standard of global culture emanating from the US, there are reports of some cases of bullying, b…
There was plenty of bullying in my middle school in Russia in the nineties. Hell, there's a 1983 Soviet movie about bullying. Any kid that was weird and had no "redeeming" qualities (strength or wealth) was likely to be bullied. Don't tell me your class was one big happy family and that you didn't have that one kid that no one cared about.
