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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#331

Post by mywittyname »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #128
cs702 wrote: post #51

There's one other possible, additional reason. I recently asked a 17-year-old high school senior who is heading to college what she's planning to study, and she said it would be mathematics, biomedical engineering, or some other kind of engineering. She's self-motivated -- says she will be studying multi-variate calculus, PDEs, and abstract algebra on her own this summer. She maxed out her high school math curriculum…

> I recently asked a 17-year-old high school senior who is heading to college what she's planning to study, and she said it would be mathematics, biomedical engineering, or some other kind of engineering. I find this interesting. In this day and age I get the impression that whichever STEM field one goes into there will be considerable time spent in front of a computer screen. Whether researching, writing programs, r…

There certainly isn't much practical career differences between studying physics, cs, or math. The best paying and most abundant career opportunities in all of those fields is some form of software development.

It's sort of a similar situation for lots of engineering too, especially those who study fields with tighter labor markets (aero, biomed, nuclear). Lots of young people set their sights on NASA/Boing/GM and end up not making the cut. I've worked with lots of these people during my career.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#332

Post by cpwright »

drewg123 wrote: post #107
non-entity wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the big companies treat you like a leper unless you went through a few chosen schools. I was under the impression that they didnt care about your background, but you had to slave away on leetcode to have a chance to pass the interviews.

I agree with the GP. I had a similar experience at SUNY Buffalo in around the same time. I terms of working for a FAANG, in order to pass the interview, you have to first get the interview. If you attend Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, etc, FAANG's will have career fair booths, and lots of other opportunity for internships and networking. You will be at the top of the pile and you're almost guaranteed a look. Contrast that…

I'll counter that I went to SUNY Stony Brook and have not felt that I was shut out of any interviewing at any company because of it. At this point, my degree from 14 years ago is not nearly as important as the connections I've made with co-workers since.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#333

Post by tekkk »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I can agree on that social status of having CS degree in itself is near zero or negative. Which is a stark comparison to doctors or lawyers about whom people in general think possess better qualities than the rest of populace.

Yet I'd say it's the pursuit of intelligence that makes a person interesting in the first place, not the pursuit of gaining social status and a lot of money. So I'm quite fine if the common folk are that dumb to think that CS is inferior compared to those degrees, as if they somehow knew the difference. A lot of course depends on the institution and the quality of the education, as the lower prestige colleges definitely produce lower quality CS graduates than their equivalent in lower prestige med or law schools. I guess social ineptitude being more heavily represented among CS folk don't in the least improve their chances.

But to make a point, yes while the common folk might think that CS graduates are nerdy Gollums who code in a dark closet all day, that is just their prejudice getting the best of them. There are a lot of very smart and diligent people graduating with CS degrees, who with better social skills would be as good or better than the doctors and lawyers alike in problem solving in positions of power (such as the house of Lords). I myself though know only a rare few who would be even remotely interested in such, so I guess the situation will remain the same into the far future. Hopefully though some get involved with their communities' politics. Shipping a piece of fragile software with many stakeholders I imagine is somewhat similar to iterating a best policy involving all constituents in question. You just have to know how to sell it and get people aboard.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#334

Post by thelopa »

thu2111 wrote: post #280
buboard wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk is a physicist though, and i m pretty sure Musk is a frequent subject even when politicians speak. They have not reached out to the public in ways that Rowling or Obama have, so it's natural that the public feels them distant. Bill gates earns some respect for his low-key activism but he s not too prominent either. Scientists who reach out can garner respect, Thatcher was a Chemist, Merkel is a physicist. It's t…

Musk isn't a physicist. He's a programmer who retrained as a rocket engine specialist and business leader. Rockets involve physics but only in the sense that computers involve physics, they're applications of fairly basic physical theories. I mean, he's not doing string theory in his corporate offices. Angela Merkel is also not a physicist. She studied physics and then published a few papers in 'quantum chemistry' bu…

> Rowling is well known but is currently having her reputation blown up and being stabbed in the back by the starlets she birthed, because she's not on board with "people can pick their own gender at will".

Wow. So much to unpack here. I’m getting the impression that you sympathize with Rowling’s views. I’m a little more immersed in trans issues than most on HN, so let me assure you that Rowling is flat out wrong. For example, in her essay she alluded to (but didn’t cite) studies that have been discredited. A lot of her central points are easily dismantled when faced with reality. Her arguments are only convincing if you aren’t familiar with the issues.

You also echoed the idea that trans people casually picked their gender. If you ever talked to a trans person I’m sure you’d realize just how wrong that idea is. All the trans people I know report feeling like they had little choice. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve head trans people say things like “I would give anything to be a cis X”. By portraying it as a casual choice you’re belittling the daily struggle trans people endure. It’s not “just a choice” if transitioning is the only way to suppress suicidal urges, and suicide is rampant among trans people. The 2015 survey found that 41% of trans people had attempted suicide during their life. The percentage of people who had considered it was MUCH higher, but I don’t remember the exact number. It’s not a choice when your options are live or die.

I’m speaking not only from the experience of participating in trans groups, but also as a trans person myself.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#335

Post by aSockPuppeteer »

dylan-m wrote: post #322

I got about 8 years into my four year degree program in between interesting part time and then full time jobs on the side, and recently came to a set of realizations: 1. I'm never going to finish this damn thing because I keep failing or almost failing math courses (and it happens the three required courses I have left are gated by math courses). All it does at this stage is make me feel inferior. (I do suck at think…

One of my professors I liked told me she “Will not start teaching a class until she can do 100 practice problems in the subject she teaches”. We had an 84 year old lady pass the class with us.

I don’t know what you’re struggling with but maybe retake a previous Calc 1 class to pass calc 2. Audit calc 3/statistics so it’s just practice.

Obtain a different book and do the entire thing on your own, not only the even or odd problems.

I had to hate math and the embrace the suck to start enjoying it. Wolfram Alpha is a good friend in math.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#336

Post by thex10 »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #125
jkire wrote: post #101

FWIW I've been coding since my early teens and enjoyed it a lot, but when it came to university (in 2009) I had very little interest in doing a CS degree and instead opted for Maths. The two main reasons were: a) I knew that doing Maths instead of CS wasn't really going to hinder my job prospects in any way, and b) CS sounded a lot drier and had fewer options and choices than the Maths degree (in the UK you apply for…

I think this is the crux of it. What we're doing as software developers is not a scientific discipline, it's engineering. So if you want to be a software developer, computer science is the WRONG field for you. Computer Science is largely concerned about things like algorithms and complexity, theory of automata, and stuff like that. They're doing research. Software developers care about those algorithms, but we decide…

Well said. And THIS is why I have no qualms about not majoring in CS 10 years ago, despite being at a big-name university with a well-regarded CS program.

I love working as a software engineer, and had been tinkering with web development independently since high school -- and it didn't really occur to me to major in CS. Other than both involved working with computers, I didn't see the connection. I had dismissed CS as irrelevant to my interests, too esoteric, boring, dry.

In the course of my current work, there are some things I do wish I'd learned more about, but not enough of them to make me regret not majoring in CS.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#337

Post by _xnmw »

thu2111 wrote: post #280
buboard wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk is a physicist though, and i m pretty sure Musk is a frequent subject even when politicians speak. They have not reached out to the public in ways that Rowling or Obama have, so it's natural that the public feels them distant. Bill gates earns some respect for his low-key activism but he s not too prominent either. Scientists who reach out can garner respect, Thatcher was a Chemist, Merkel is a physicist. It's t…

Musk isn't a physicist. He's a programmer who retrained as a rocket engine specialist and business leader. Rockets involve physics but only in the sense that computers involve physics, they're applications of fairly basic physical theories. I mean, he's not doing string theory in his corporate offices. Angela Merkel is also not a physicist. She studied physics and then published a few papers in 'quantum chemistry' bu…

Even if Rowling is currently getting torn to pieces, and Obama is not making the front page every day, they leave behind a legacy in history and culture. What they say matters, even to their enemies, as the Rowling case shows.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#338

Post by anon_1_1_1 »

thu2111 wrote: post #254
chrisseaton wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.

Titles like that are hardly common though. I never encountered anyone who called themselves a "code ninja" at the FAANG I worked at. That term seems to be a kind of recruiter stereotype/cliche rather than one professionals actually use.

My job title, as it was printed on my employment offer and paycheck, at a start up that was located a few blocks away from the Google HQ in Mountain View in 2014 and staffed by plenty of xooglers, was "Front End Hacker". Six figure job.

Not that it disproves your statement that the titles are uncommon, but hey, I just want to stand up and say "Hey, us professional hackers and ninjas and cowboys are REAL!"

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#339

Post by mywittyname »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #125
jkire wrote: post #101

FWIW I've been coding since my early teens and enjoyed it a lot, but when it came to university (in 2009) I had very little interest in doing a CS degree and instead opted for Maths. The two main reasons were: a) I knew that doing Maths instead of CS wasn't really going to hinder my job prospects in any way, and b) CS sounded a lot drier and had fewer options and choices than the Maths degree (in the UK you apply for…

I think this is the crux of it. What we're doing as software developers is not a scientific discipline, it's engineering. So if you want to be a software developer, computer science is the WRONG field for you. Computer Science is largely concerned about things like algorithms and complexity, theory of automata, and stuff like that. They're doing research. Software developers care about those algorithms, but we decide…

I disagree pretty strongly. I wrote lots and lots of practical software as part of my undergrad. And the software I wrote was pretty diverse, including, file system drivers, image recognition, data mining / text classification, exploit utilities, etc. Most of the complex theory has been offloaded to graduate school to make way for "practical applications." Plus, I feel like my education set me up to be a little ahead of the job market, as data science was a track of my CS ten years ago, and you'd have left university with your own little scikit-learn library.
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