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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#271

Post by [deleted] »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #260
chrisseaton wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example... I have a friend who is a barrister in London. He makes a lot less money than I do, and works a lot longer hours, so sounds like he has the lower status job, right? No, because he's getting invited to join elite private social clubs and organisations. He's going to dinner parties with politicians and could use that network to start a political career if he wanted. He's meeting people with capital to inv…

Why would I want to hang out with vapid, shallow people?

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#272

Post by commandlinefan »

x87678r wrote: post #142

CS is a bifurcated world. Yes there are very well paid people in FANG companies and in Bay Area start ups. The reality is that 90% of IT people are working in a cubical making bug fixes to TPS reports in nondescript corporates where they're just another cost center - until they hit their forties when it gets tough to find a job. Most people see that reality.

> working in a cubical

Oh, if only...

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#273

Post by viro »

chrisseaton wrote: post #211
logicchains wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we don't get fancy titles Some people get titles like "code ninja", although I suppose "fancy" isn't really the right word for that.

Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.

The same people that don't consider the tech industry professional are the same people that wouldn't hire Tavis Ormandy because he has a tattoo on his lower arm or doesn't wanna wear a suit every day. Yea so I'd rather wait out the boomers and be comfortable.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#274

Post by [deleted] »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #260
chrisseaton wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example... I have a friend who is a barrister in London. He makes a lot less money than I do, and works a lot longer hours, so sounds like he has the lower status job, right? No, because he's getting invited to join elite private social clubs and organisations. He's going to dinner parties with politicians and could use that network to start a political career if he wanted. He's meeting people with capital to inv…

Why would I want to hang out with vapid, shallow people?

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#275

Post by Spooky23 »

jerf wrote: post #208
Spooky23 wrote: post #32

Easy. The educational aspect is pretty awful. And after you get through that, the big companies treat you like a leper unless you went through a few chosen schools. I went to a big state school in the 90s. The first two years were a hazing, with a brutal curve designed to drop class size from 1000+ (CSI 200) to about 80 graduates. It was sink or swim and awarded grit. The only major worse was biology where organic ch…

"I went to a big state school in the 90s. The first two years were a hazing, with a brutal curve designed to drop class size from 1000+ (CSI 200) to about 80 graduates." Is your "CSI 200" a general-interest course? I went to a fairly large university's computer science program, but even the intro course for the majors was probably only about 200 people/semester, which at this particular institution, meant taking the…

In my school, CSI 2xx was the entry point for majors. There were two courses (Intro and a logic class) with just under 1000 enrolled.

The 3xx entry point class was 400 people, the next 3xx mandatory class was 250 and the 400s were typically 20-50 students.

I think one issue was they didn’t gate by GPA or other metrics. So you had many students who just couldn’t hack the math or didn’t have the drive early in the cycle. That decision tainted the professors... you were an idiot until proven otherwise.

I dual majored in history and it was night and day. Similar workload, but a totally different outlook. I still exchange Christmas cards with a couple of my history professors.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#276

Post by jki275 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #57
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the social status of computer scientists zero, or do computer scientists choose not to go into politics or other leadership positions? I suspect it's the latter [anecdotal; opinion; citation needed]. CS people are a tribe on their own (if I may generalize); I've not met anyone with an interest in participating in politics. They have strong opinions on politics, but not to the point where they're willing to represe…

> Is the social status of computer scientists zero, or do computer scientists choose not to go into politics or other leadership positions? Well the outcome is the same either way. And if none of the institutions have any computer scientists in them now good luck to the first few people trying because they work on social connections. There's a social ceiling to computer scientists. I won't call it a glass ceiling eve…

General Nakasone is a lifelong intelligence officer with degrees in the field of intelligence, and he’s been in the intelligence and cyber warfare fields for decades.

He’s not a computer scientist, but he’s also not an English teacher they just stuck in charge because he has a star. He’s highly qualified for that job, as are most people who have been assigned there. NSA does a lot of things that are not computer science, and many senior people there do come out of the engineering and CS fields.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#277

Post by viro »

User23 wrote: post #220
corpMaverick wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all. I totally agree with you. I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field. They are more socially aware than we are. Also, even in IT areas, technical capable people are relegated. We get good salaries but we don't get fancy titles. We are the only profession that allows to be managed by outsiders. Financial firms(and finance departme…

> I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field You're right of course, but I'm going to spell out more clearly what you're saying for those of us here who don't get it. Women avoid computing science because it's populated by low status men and women are repulsed by low status men. Women in tech are either low status themselves, quickly move up into management, or exit the field. Don't ha…

That's screams incel thinking buddy. EDIT: flagged? Did I hurt some ones feelings?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#278

Post by chrisseaton »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #260
chrisseaton wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example... I have a friend who is a barrister in London. He makes a lot less money than I do, and works a lot longer hours, so sounds like he has the lower status job, right? No, because he's getting invited to join elite private social clubs and organisations. He's going to dinner parties with politicians and could use that network to start a political career if he wanted. He's meeting people with capital to inv…

Why would I want to hang out with vapid, shallow people?

I don't know I can't answer for you why you'd want to do something or not, or how you've managed to get a beef with people you've never met.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#279

Post by apta »

corpMaverick wrote: post #169
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all. I totally agree with you. I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field. They are more socially aware than we are. Also, even in IT areas, technical capable people are relegated. We get good salaries but we don't get fancy titles. We are the only profession that allows to be managed by outsiders. Financial firms(and finance departme…

> I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field.

That's assuming women are after social status, which is a strong claim.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#280

Post by thu2111 »

buboard wrote: post #214
_xnmw wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this out the hard way (that the social status of computer scientists outside of the Valley is nearly zero) in my late twenties, when I was starting to look to get married. I'm now changing careers. I realized that women (and society in general) cared absolutely zero about my profession except for the fact that it made good money. Even if you do become obscenely wealthy, you rarely garner any real respect in m…

Musk is a physicist though, and i m pretty sure Musk is a frequent subject even when politicians speak. They have not reached out to the public in ways that Rowling or Obama have, so it's natural that the public feels them distant. Bill gates earns some respect for his low-key activism but he s not too prominent either. Scientists who reach out can garner respect, Thatcher was a Chemist, Merkel is a physicist. It's t…

Musk isn't a physicist. He's a programmer who retrained as a rocket engine specialist and business leader. Rockets involve physics but only in the sense that computers involve physics, they're applications of fairly basic physical theories. I mean, he's not doing string theory in his corporate offices.

Angela Merkel is also not a physicist. She studied physics and then published a few papers in 'quantum chemistry' but for basically her whole adult life she's been in politics. She's as close to a professional politician as you'll find.

I know it wasn't you but Rowling and Obama are odd picks for high status individuals. Rowling is well known but is currently having her reputation blown up and being stabbed in the back by the starlets she birthed, because she's not on board with "people can pick their own gender at will". Obama was high status when he was POTUS; where is he now? Does anyone know what he's up to these days? It's not Obama himself that had high status but the position.

In my experience Musk gets a lot of respect. I know a totally non-technical financial CEO who always cites Musk as his inspiration. The guy even likes to see himself as kind of like Musk which is hilarious to me, as he is slightly more likely to be struck by lightning than sit down with a pile of textbooks to learn a new technical skill. That's just not who he is.

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