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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#51

Post by cs702 »

There's one other possible, additional reason.

I recently asked a 17-year-old high school senior who is heading to college what she's planning to study, and she said it would be mathematics, biomedical engineering, or some other kind of engineering. She's self-motivated -- says she will be studying multi-variate calculus, PDEs, and abstract algebra on her own this summer. She maxed out her high school math curriculum, which included linear algebra as an elective.

Naturally, I asked her about computer science, and she said something like this (paraphrasing):

"The kids who love computers at my high school seem to be able to spend their entire day focusing on a computer screen, even on weekends. I cannot do that. And those kids are mostly boys whose social behavior is a little bit on the spectrum."

While I don't fully agree with her perspective, it makes me wonder how many other talented people shun the field for similar reasons.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#52

Post by partyboat1586 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #34
buzzy_hacker wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how old you are but this is not the case at all among my age group, recent college grads. If you say you work at Google, to continue your example, people are definitely impressed and think you’re very smart. Pretty much all of my friends and their friends are not in software engineering and that’s still the case.

I think people are impressed by the big names, but not so much if you work for an enterprise SaaS provider.

If you make comparisons to Google people will have no way of telling the difference.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#53

Post by raxxorrax »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I am not even mad that the social status is zero to be honest, but I think you are completely correct. People do think that I am rich and can do math though, but that is about it. I think my education was horizontal enough to have an opinion to things outside my field too, but it is generally disregarded because I am just the computer guy.

I know more about medicine than the common doctor knows about computers though. Seriously, doctors in my country are selected from the best pupils and the result is mixed at best.

Judging the knowledge and context of amateurs is where most professionals fail regardless of occupation, but if you see a doctor in front of a computer you might quickly loose all faith in humanity.

That said, I don't think you need formal education in computer science, since knowledge is broadly available online. It doesn't hurt to be nudged in certain directions for a semester or two though. My university always paired physics or electrical engineering with CS. there is also a less popular option of philosophy. The latter was historically a popular combination when CS wasn't its own degree.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#54

Post by ghaff »

chrisco255 wrote: post #34
buzzy_hacker wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how old you are but this is not the case at all among my age group, recent college grads. If you say you work at Google, to continue your example, people are definitely impressed and think you’re very smart. Pretty much all of my friends and their friends are not in software engineering and that’s still the case.

I think people are impressed by the big names, but not so much if you work for an enterprise SaaS provider.

People have heard of and will probably be at least mildly impressed by the big consumer-facing FAANGs plus maybe a few others like Microsoft, IBM, etc.. But Oracle, Salesforce, SAP (to say nothing of a myriad of other software and hardware companies)? The average person hasn't even heard of most of them.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#55

Post by stan_rogers »

adwww wrote: post #28
exdsq wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do exist. Even Oxford has an MSc in SoftEng.

Doesn't Oxford just automatically boost all bachelors to masters a year after graduating though?

That's just Master of Arts (MA). MSc, MEng, MLitt, etc., are not automatic.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#56

Post by heraclius »

exdsq wrote: post #41
adwww wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Oxford just automatically boost all bachelors to masters a year after graduating though?

Yes, you’re awarded an MA (Oxon) after a few years of graduating, but this is a ‘proper’ Masters course

The fourth year of an undergrad also gives an “undergraduate master’s”.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#57

Post by chrisseaton »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #14
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

Is the social status of computer scientists zero, or do computer scientists choose not to go into politics or other leadership positions? I suspect it's the latter [anecdotal; opinion; citation needed]. CS people are a tribe on their own (if I may generalize); I've not met anyone with an interest in participating in politics. They have strong opinions on politics, but not to the point where they're willing to represe…

> Is the social status of computer scientists zero, or do computer scientists choose not to go into politics or other leadership positions?

Well the outcome is the same either way. And if none of the institutions have any computer scientists in them now good luck to the first few people trying because they work on social connections.

There's a social ceiling to computer scientists. I won't call it a glass ceiling even because everyone can see it.

Take an institution like the NSA - where probably some of the best computer scientists and mathematicians are working doing some of the most cutting edge work with the best resources. Who leads them? A low social status computer scientist? Of course not. They get in a high social status military officer to do that job - can't trust the computer scientists and can you blame them because they won't have any influence in society to get anything done anyway!

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#58

Post by boomlinde »

exdsq wrote: post #16
ForHackernews wrote: post #3

Why would you major in computer science if you want to work as a software engineer? It's like getting a physics degree to become a civil engineer.

I was in a meeting just this morning regarding how we measure the performance of something which ended up with reading a paper on queue theory to help with the design. CS and SE are very related. Also, Civil Engineers do learn physics as part of their course.

> Also, Civil Engineers do learn physics as part of their course.

The analogy is apt for exactly that reason. Some knowledge in physics is fundamentally required, but for the civil engineer it's only professionally relevant to the extent that they can apply it to solve practical problems. A solid understanding of physics (and indeed how to come out wiser after reading a paper relevant to your field) is just one part of their expected skill set.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#59

Post by non-entity »

Spooky23 wrote: post #32

Easy. The educational aspect is pretty awful. And after you get through that, the big companies treat you like a leper unless you went through a few chosen schools. I went to a big state school in the 90s. The first two years were a hazing, with a brutal curve designed to drop class size from 1000+ (CSI 200) to about 80 graduates. It was sink or swim and awarded grit. The only major worse was biology where organic ch…

> the big companies treat you like a leper unless you went through a few chosen schools.

I was under the impression that they didnt care about your background, but you had to slave away on leetcode to have a chance to pass the interviews.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#60

Post by chrisseaton »

buzzy_hacker wrote: post #26
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I don’t know how old you are but this is not the case at all among my age group, recent college grads. If you say you work at Google, to continue your example, people are definitely impressed and think you’re very smart. Pretty much all of my friends and their friends are not in software engineering and that’s still the case.

I guess they might think 'that sounds like a good office job they just be smart and they must appreciate those free massages'. But they aren't going to second you to join the Pacific-Union are they?
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