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An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

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Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#141
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we had concentration camps for Japanese people during World War II I study WW2, and it's important to be factual. The correct term is internment camps. Japanese-Americans usually lost their property, but the purpose was to locate them in central locations, not to re-educate or liquidate them, as our enemies did to the Allies. For that time in history, it could be argued that the decision made sense. Japanese subs d…

That's what concentration camp is for. To concentrate and control. There were separate death camps (sometimes combined) that involved direct train-to-killing-field pipelines, and most concentration camps involved work in horrible conditions, but that's because of further goals above relocation.

>That's what concentration camp is for. To concentrate and control.

The problem is that these words have taken on entirely different meanings that perhaps what they once meant and there are those who take advantage of that disparity. When people hear about concentration camps, they think death camps, even if that isn't specifically what the word once meant.

There are many such ways to twist words like this and rarely do I find them being used for positive reasons. It is like when someone lists all the large name chemicals in a vaccine. They might be factually correct, but what is the chance they are doing that to scare people who have a misunderstanding of chemicals thinking that large name means harmful chemical?

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's entirely a reasonable comparison. The idea behind strong (especially E2E) encryption is that even with a warrant, the information in question is entirely inaccessible.

Yes, the same as any unrecorded conversation is inaccessible by warrant after it happens. Law enforcement doesn't need omniscience, but we do need freedom to associate and privacy in a democracy.

I didn't say they do.

Encryption is still a different idea from warrantless searches though.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats worst is these should all be entirely illegal. Its literally warrantless searching.

I'm not in favor of the bill, but a warrant is still required (at least for domestic stuff).

Which is why the U.S. government routes a copy of the traffic through servers hosted in a friendly ally's country, then do whatever you want with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYNXVgYhPOc&feature=emb_logo

General Alexander was very precise in his choice of words when he repeatedly stated "in the United States". What went unasked was whether these operations take-place against U.S. citizens outside of the borders of the United States.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#144

These bills terrify me. A lot of stuff happens in politics that’s frustrating, and much of it doesn’t catch my attention. There’s something about the pure ignorance that goes into breaking encryption that I can’t comprehend. I can understand when bills come through and the extreme differences in opinion are the result of different interpretations of facts and truth, but when it comes to encryption, there is no safe p…

What's more terrifying is that this is something you understand.

Think of all the bills you don't understand that are just as bad!

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our word used to mean something. > But now? How can we hold a higher ground than China when our own police forces use the very same tactics against our own protesters? How can we accuse the other side of building concentration camps when we have our own? But we’ve had things like this for a long time. The police have acted like they do for generations, we had concentration camps for Japanese people during World War…

> we had concentration camps for Japanese people during World War II I study WW2, and it's important to be factual. The correct term is internment camps. Japanese-Americans usually lost their property, but the purpose was to locate them in central locations, not to re-educate or liquidate them, as our enemies did to the Allies. For that time in history, it could be argued that the decision made sense. Japanese subs d…

> using the term "moral high ground" is not helpful for a number of reasons

The U.S. had a global nuclear monopoly for several years. It didn’t abuse it. That’s a hell of a high ground.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our word used to mean something. > But now? How can we hold a higher ground than China when our own police forces use the very same tactics against our own protesters? How can we accuse the other side of building concentration camps when we have our own? But we’ve had things like this for a long time. The police have acted like they do for generations, we had concentration camps for Japanese people during World War…

> we had concentration camps for Japanese people during World War II I study WW2, and it's important to be factual. The correct term is internment camps. Japanese-Americans usually lost their property, but the purpose was to locate them in central locations, not to re-educate or liquidate them, as our enemies did to the Allies. For that time in history, it could be argued that the decision made sense. Japanese subs d…

>For that time in history, it could be argued that the decision made sense. Japanese subs did shell the US mainland, and Japanese-Americans in Hawaii did help a Japanese aircrew try to escape after Pearl Harbor. Japan planned to return to Hawaii after Midway to occupy Hawaii.

It could also be argued that it made sense to do the same for Germans since we had a minority of Germans siding with Hitler and even holding Nazi rallies before we got involved in WWII. We weren't exactly good arbiters of fairness when it came to race either.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#147

Computer criminals (especially the commercial variety) and foreign intelligence agents must be drooling right about now. If something like this becomes law, it's only a matter of time until a mass-breach gives, e.g., China or Russia the dirty laundry of thousands of politicians and business leaders in one fell swoop. I don't think I need to spell out what that would mean for what's left of democracy in the USA. I'm c…

but why do you think that 3 letters such as the FBI, DEA, or the NSA or CIA will stop using strong encryption? do you really think that the DHS will just break its own encryption because of some laws?

The thing is all those three letter agency’s make heavy use of civilian contractors and commercial products.

There is no doubt they are using some bigco vpn or other software that can/will eventually be compromised.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#148

This bill will be sold to the right as helping fight against foreign terrorists living in the US. It will be sold to the left as helping against the alt-right organizing and spreading hate. And it will be sold to everyone as helping stop child exploitation. In addition, there is already a lot going on in the country to keep the average person from focusing on this issue. It seems like allowing the government to spy o…

The 4 horsemen of the infocalypse: - terrorists, - drug dealers, - pedophiles, - organized crime. Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp... Have a target "thing" you wish to stop, yet lack any moral, or practical reasons for doing so? 1. Pick a fear common to lots of people, something that will evoke a gut reaction: terrorists, pedophiles, serial killers. 2. Scream loudly to the media th…

All of them are sponsored by the government. I think the counteract is to have all meetings, phone calls by public officials open for scrutiny.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#149

> (R-SC)...(R-AR)...(R-TN) It's funny how you can read just that and know that the bill is going to be absurdly bad. Not even just bad in the philosophical/political sense but actually just bad as in not understanding the problem space, or not even formulated clearly or coherently.

Are you saying that Rs or people from southern states are incapable of critical and analytical thinking?

Perhaps just that that combination does not have the best track record in that regard. Their war on science, etc.
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