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An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

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Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#71

Post by nix23 »

eitland wrote: post #70
nix23 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be exceptionally fine if Europe leave out this round of overall extremism...would be a first timer ;)

You wish. Norwegian politicians voted to allow police to control everything that crosses the border (edit2:)digitally. Which, in a small country like ours means pretty much everything. Edit: they did it despite the entire (edit3:) IT industry yelling at them and Amnesty International carefully trying to tell them to stop. That said, I guess the last word hasn't been said yet. Also equally bad things have been turned…

Well i would not call that extremism...unless they check also the Reindeer's.

And yes i wish....knock on wood

EDIT: >Amnesty International carefully trying to tell them to stop.

Why has AI a problem with checking peoples on a border?

EDIT2: I really don't see anything about that on their site: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia...

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#73

Post by kiba »

nexuist wrote: post #58
ngold wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple. The powers that be just want to break encryption, but only for law enforcement use. Simple. Uggg.

One of the long term consequence of legally dismantling our Constitution (which is the US equivalent to "company values", both in terms of how often they are invoked and by how often the same people ignore them) is that it dramatically reduces our soft power on the world stage. Right now China is engaging in textbook "secret war" with Hong Kong as well as a variety of other human rights abuses. It used to be that we,…

But now? How can we hold a higher ground than China when our own police forces use the very same tactics against our own protesters? How can we accuse the other side of building concentration camps when we have our own?

It's called having protestors in the first place. China wouldn't let you hear about it, or all you get is distorted information, which means you don't know what's going on in their society.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#74

Post by FerretFred »

nix23 wrote: post #54
choeger wrote: post #3

With China on the one end going into full dystopian mode and the US aiming for a modern police state, I really wonder what the endgame is. Full fascism again?

Would be exceptionally fine if Europe leave out this round of overall extremism...would be a first timer ;)

Ha! Our UK Prime Minister would love this. He wouldn't understand the implications but he'd appoint the usual cronies and hangers-on to implement it, and we'd all suffer the consequences.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#75

Post by eitland »

nix23 wrote: post #71
eitland wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wish. Norwegian politicians voted to allow police to control everything that crosses the border (edit2:)digitally. Which, in a small country like ours means pretty much everything. Edit: they did it despite the entire (edit3:) IT industry yelling at them and Amnesty International carefully trying to tell them to stop. That said, I guess the last word hasn't been said yet. Also equally bad things have been turned…

Well i would not call that extremism...unless they check also the Reindeer's. And yes i wish....knock on wood EDIT: >Amnesty International carefully trying to tell them to stop. Why has AI a problem with checking peoples on a border? EDIT2: I really don't see anything about that on their site: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia...

That was some sloppy writing by me. I've edited my previous post to avoid further confusion. (It is about data traffic, not ordinary customs.)

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#76

Post by redis_mlc »

pietroglyph wrote: post #69
nexuist wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the long term consequence of legally dismantling our Constitution (which is the US equivalent to "company values", both in terms of how often they are invoked and by how often the same people ignore them) is that it dramatically reduces our soft power on the world stage. Right now China is engaging in textbook "secret war" with Hong Kong as well as a variety of other human rights abuses. It used to be that we,…

> Our word used to mean something. > But now? How can we hold a higher ground than China when our own police forces use the very same tactics against our own protesters? How can we accuse the other side of building concentration camps when we have our own? But we’ve had things like this for a long time. The police have acted like they do for generations, we had concentration camps for Japanese people during World War…

> we had concentration camps for Japanese people during World War II

I study WW2, and it's important to be factual.

The correct term is internment camps. Japanese-Americans usually lost their property, but the purpose was to locate them in central locations, not to re-educate or liquidate them, as our enemies did to the Allies.

For that time in history, it could be argued that the decision made sense. Japanese subs did shell the US mainland, and Japanese-Americans in Hawaii did help a Japanese aircrew try to escape after Pearl Harbor. Japan planned to return to Hawaii after Midway to occupy Hawaii.

I think using the term "moral high ground" is not helpful for a number of reasons. However, the US did rebuild the world economy after WW2, mostly to prevent it from becoming aligned with the Soviet Union. Most of the world's national borders are descended from WW2.

As leading historian Dr. Victor Davis Hanson says, "[WW2 was German and Japanese soldiers machine-gunning unarmed civilians by the tens of millions.]"

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#77

Post by FerretFred »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #36
anon9001 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why do so many people assume it can’t happen here? Is that actually the assumption? I'm pretty sure everyone already assumes that the government already has all of your messages, browsing history, transactions, etc, and they can come for you if they want. Between the massive surveillance state that already exists and the judicial miracle of "parallel construction", it's already very much a problem. The only thing l…

There is something worse than gulags. Telescreens, watched by "AI". They can arrest you on trumped up charges, but it's not really feasible to do that to everybody, and extreme heavy-handedness promotes resistance. Once they reach inside your device, they don't have to murder or imprison you, they can just give you a little slap whenever you try to stray from the garden path. Let you know that they're watching so the…

They can arrest you on trumped up charges, but it's not really feasible to do that to everybody

No, but I would imagine there would soon be some way of removing your liberty and keep you under house arrest for a set period. Imagine if they made sure your banking and cards were frozen for the period to stop you going anywhere...

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#78

Post by mcv »

mjburgess wrote: post #63
throwaway49872 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The antifa lot essentially define fascism as an eternal set of human psychological impulses: nostalgia, in-group preference, desire for cultural homogenity, etc. Add authoritarianism and militarism to it and you have the definition used by historians and political scientists. > Fascism was a direct result of, and contingent upon, the mass death and poverty caused by WWI. "mass death and poverty" in Italy? This is p…

Then it is nearly meaningless and just a term of abuse. Fascism is not "skepticism". By this definition of fascism, antifa are fascists and so are all governments and most people. This may be how some use the term, just as some use "communism" to describe any use of the state. It's pseudo-political nonesense that's just a term of abuse.

Now you're just making words meaningless. Fascism is a reasonably well-defined ideology. Not every use of the word applies it correctly, and I've even seen convincing arguments that Nazism wasn't true fascism while Stalinism was, but this is what's generally meant by fascism: an ideology where everything revolves around a great leader, his inner circle, the party, the "true" people, and where every aspect of society serves this unity of concentric circles. It's explicitly totalitarian and doesn't tolerate dissent or different opinions; everybody needs to be loyal to the leader, or is considered an enemy of the people.

Antifa, by comparison, doesn't even have a leader. And doesn't want one either.

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#79

Post by nix23 »

eitland wrote: post #75
nix23 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well i would not call that extremism...unless they check also the Reindeer's. And yes i wish....knock on wood EDIT: >Amnesty International carefully trying to tell them to stop. Why has AI a problem with checking peoples on a border? EDIT2: I really don't see anything about that on their site: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia...

That was some sloppy writing by me. I've edited my previous post to avoid further confusion. (It is about data traffic, not ordinary customs.)

Oh yes that's bad, still did no found anything about that on AI website, maybe you mean the EFF?

Re: An even worse anti-encryption bill than EARN IT

#80

Post by 082349872349872 »

anon9001 wrote: post #14
gentleman11 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The further we get from wwii, and the Cold War to some extent, the harder it is to remind the public how scary it is to live without freedoms. How do we remind them? Could China and Russia act as cautionary tales that voters would respond to? Putin jailing and murdering his political opposition, Chinese concentration camps for muslims - why do so many people assume it can’t happen here? Nazi germany wasnt some backwa…

> why do so many people assume it can’t happen here? Is that actually the assumption? I'm pretty sure everyone already assumes that the government already has all of your messages, browsing history, transactions, etc, and they can come for you if they want. Between the massive surveillance state that already exists and the judicial miracle of "parallel construction", it's already very much a problem. The only thing l…

A while ago there was a "north korean browser" that kept track of everything one did online. At the time people were saying how dystopic that was, but I'd always thought it must have been an elaborate troll, an in-your-face reminder of what could easily be done today, at multiple layers of the stack, with one's digital exhaust.

(On the sibling thread: by my calculation at most 13% of the 1984 society had telescreens, so at roughly 60% global internet usage we're well ahead of Orwell for staring into Palantirs.

Someone in the non-aligned movement ought to produce networking gear, so we aren't necessarily beholden to suppliers approved by one of the two[0] largest economies. Then again, seeing what happened to the former "leader of the third world" after the Cold War, maybe it's best not to draw attention to oneself in that way. "None of you has ever seen a dead donkey.")

[0] China, US, would you all please reflect that "one to embody power the other to crave it" is a philosophy attributed to the "bad guys" in that particular mythos?

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