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NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

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Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#41

Post by Ar-Curunir »

Thorentis wrote: post #31
guerrilla wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overcoming sexism and racism is something to be proud of and for others to celebrate. Nobody's celebrating this person for their identity in isolation but overcoming a situation where all the odds are very much stacked against a person of such an identity. > If their achievements were that incredible, we would've heard much more about them. Plenty of white engineers had successful careers, contributed to their progra…

> The majority of things are named after white men to the exclusion of everyone else. That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. I'm not celebrating that fact, I'm just pointing out the source of the statistic you've pointed out. The things weren't named because the person was a white male, they were named because of a tremendous achievement that happened to be made by a w…

Mate, shut up with the nonsense. There are many scientific concepts that originated in Asian/MiddleEastern civilizations that simply happen to have a European name because the latter person popularized it in the West.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#42

Post by ghostpepper »

a-wu wrote: post #10
warent wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not much of a movie watcher but this one is an outstanding one! Highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't already seen it.

A great movie indeed however it uses the white savior trope gratuitously. The scene where Kevin Costner’s character lets Octavia Spencer’s character into the mission control room never happened in real life.

I didn't think Costner's character even existed in real life but I'm also not convinced that fact detracts much from the film.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#43

Post by Thorentis »

philistine wrote: post #39
Thorentis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then solve the exclusion problem. Don't pretend it has already been solved by naming things after black people. It's like taking a painkiller and thinking your broken arm is fixed. Fix the problem, not the symptom.

That is one important way you fix the problem, by honouring again and again the few examples of minority success. Stop trying to prevent black people from receiving praise.

I hope you're joking. There is nothing more dishonoring and patronizing than to change the goal posts for somebody, just because of their race.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#44

Post by glosses »

grugagag wrote: post #20
cyberlurker wrote: post #14

I've seen negative comments of people claiming this is fruitless and that it pretends to solve racism forever (here and elsewhere). No one involved in naming this thought that was the case. They are giving overdue recognition. I can't imagine why people would be negative about this besides feeling threatened.

I dont know if feeling threatened but aware this person’s contribution was not the reason for the naming but the fact that black people were supressed. It’s a generous move but not highly meritocratic. People might have a problem or two with that. I want to remind them we dont live in a meritocratic society anyway and the powerful snatch the merit away like a giant magnet. It will naturally bruise some egos and pump…

Doesn't this go both ways? Is it really more meritocratic to choose someone who made a greater contribution if they were given significantly better opportunities throughout their life to achieve it? Can you even judge merit if not everyone is given an equal start?

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#46

Post by Thorentis »

tartoran wrote: post #26
Thorentis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing meritorious about being black, or being a female, or being white, or being male. You cannot choose your race, or your biological sex. You didn't earn these traits, and you aren't a better or worse human being for having any of them. The NASA HQ was named after somebody to celebrate traits they didn't earn or choose. There are plenty of engineers that were objectively better engineers (I'm sure there…

It’s a symbolic gesture relax. While it irks you it might inspire a young black kid to become an astronomer or phisicist or astronaut. As a white there are plenty of inspiring people. Some of them have been power hungry and ruthless and nobody knows how many people they trampled on. Some of those are white symbols. Why not let balcks have their own?

I find it interesting when race is pointed out as a positive trait in some contexts but not others. E.g. a black engineer is a good inspiration for a black child because they are both black. Whereas if I showed my child a great white engineer because the engineer was white, I'd be criticised for being a racist. If race doesn't matter, why do we need more of x race as engineers? If race does matter, why isn't the current majority race allowed to have the same preferences/inspirations (consciously at least)?

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#47

Post by cyberlurker »

Thorentis wrote: post #31
guerrilla wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overcoming sexism and racism is something to be proud of and for others to celebrate. Nobody's celebrating this person for their identity in isolation but overcoming a situation where all the odds are very much stacked against a person of such an identity. > If their achievements were that incredible, we would've heard much more about them. Plenty of white engineers had successful careers, contributed to their progra…

> The majority of things are named after white men to the exclusion of everyone else. That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. I'm not celebrating that fact, I'm just pointing out the source of the statistic you've pointed out. The things weren't named because the person was a white male, they were named because of a tremendous achievement that happened to be made by a w…

I would argue that the level of success and contribution despite racism, which is a significant hurdle, makes it so that nothing is being inflated.

Also I get your point that at NASA and in the USA we have mostly white scientist until recently, but I take issue with your statement about the majority of scientific achievements.

Historically there are thousands upon thousands of Arab and Chinese scientific achievements, to name a few cultures that aren't white. I don't think that is what you meant though.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#48

Post by saagarjha »

Thorentis wrote: post #46
tartoran wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a symbolic gesture relax. While it irks you it might inspire a young black kid to become an astronomer or phisicist or astronaut. As a white there are plenty of inspiring people. Some of them have been power hungry and ruthless and nobody knows how many people they trampled on. Some of those are white symbols. Why not let balcks have their own?

I find it interesting when race is pointed out as a positive trait in some contexts but not others. E.g. a black engineer is a good inspiration for a black child because they are both black. Whereas if I showed my child a great white engineer because the engineer was white, I'd be criticised for being a racist. If race doesn't matter, why do we need more of x race as engineers? If race does matter, why isn't the curr…

The issue is that children are much more likely to see a white engineer and a black one, so you’re not really showing your child anything new.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#49

Post by tartoran »

cyberlurker wrote: post #40
tartoran wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a symbolic gesture relax. While it irks you it might inspire a young black kid to become an astronomer or phisicist or astronaut. As a white there are plenty of inspiring people. Some of them have been power hungry and ruthless and nobody knows how many people they trampled on. Some of those are white symbols. Why not let balcks have their own?

As a white person who has experienced imposter syndrome at times in the tech world, I think I would have had a harder time overcoming it if I looked around and never saw another white person. Obviously that is not the case. I suspect giving young black girls someone to look up to is more powerful than people realize. If naming a building helps with that, why not do it? Also, if we are really going to suddenly be meri…

Exactly!

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#50

Post by saagarjha »

Thorentis wrote: post #23
cyberlurker wrote: post #14

I've seen negative comments of people claiming this is fruitless and that it pretends to solve racism forever (here and elsewhere). No one involved in naming this thought that was the case. They are giving overdue recognition. I can't imagine why people would be negative about this besides feeling threatened.

There is nothing meritorious about being black, or being a female, or being white, or being male. You cannot choose your race, or your biological sex. You didn't earn these traits, and you aren't a better or worse human being for having any of them. The NASA HQ was named after somebody to celebrate traits they didn't earn or choose. There are plenty of engineers that were objectively better engineers (I'm sure there…

> If their achievements were that incredible, we would've heard much more about them.

No? Minorities are marginalized all the time.

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