NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson • Hacker News Board

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#31

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:17 AM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #25

Thorentis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing meritorious about being black, or being a female, or being white, or being male. You cannot choose your race, or your biological sex. You didn't earn these traits, and you aren't a better or worse human being for having any of them. The NASA HQ was named after somebody to celebrate traits they didn't earn or choose. There are plenty of engineers that were objectively better engineers (I'm sure there…

Overcoming sexism and racism is something to be proud of and for others to celebrate. Nobody's celebrating this person for their identity in isolation but overcoming a situation where all the odds are very much stacked against a person of such an identity. > If their achievements were that incredible, we would've heard much more about them. Plenty of white engineers had successful careers, contributed to their progra…

> The majority of things are named after white men to the exclusion of everyone else.

That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. I'm not celebrating that fact, I'm just pointing out the source of the statistic you've pointed out. The things weren't named because the person was a white male, they were named because of a tremendous achievement that happened to be made by a white male. When the majority of engineers are white men, that's when you get that trend. As we see more black men/women achieve great things, we will see more things named after them.

Unfortunately, the rate of scientific and natural discovery in my opinion is slowing down. There will never be a black Christopher Columbus because there are no continents left to discover. There won't be a black Thomas Edison, because we already have light globes. Going out of our way to inflate other achievements just for the sake of naming buildings after minorities is a ridiculous thing to do.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#32

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:20 AM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #30

Thorentis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to remind them we dont live in a meritocratic society The reason I love the sciences is that in general, people are more meritocratic in those circles compared to others. I've found especially in scientific academia that people are far more meritocratic compared to other disciplines. This also applies at science/engineering companies. No, not at all levels (the more business-y you get, the less of a meritocr…

People who come to surface are either genial or narcisistic prize seekers. A lot of white people worth mentioning were forgotten because others trampled on them. Don’t be so sure it’s so meritocratic, thats just a myth

Most Nobel prize winners to date have been white. Would you say the majority of them sought out the prize? I've read about many of them, and most seem to have just had a great discovery that was awarded on merit. There will always be outliers that do things for the awards, but it's not a generialisation I've seen in the sciences. Should we start giving more Nobel prizes to black people just because of the color of their skin, or should we continue giving the Nobel prize to objectively high achievers?

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#33

Post by guerrilla » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:20 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #31

guerrilla wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overcoming sexism and racism is something to be proud of and for others to celebrate. Nobody's celebrating this person for their identity in isolation but overcoming a situation where all the odds are very much stacked against a person of such an identity. > If their achievements were that incredible, we would've heard much more about them. Plenty of white engineers had successful careers, contributed to their progra…

> The majority of things are named after white men to the exclusion of everyone else. That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. I'm not celebrating that fact, I'm just pointing out the source of the statistic you've pointed out. The things weren't named because the person was a white male, they were named because of a tremendous achievement that happened to be made by a w…

> That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men.

That's because everyone else was excluded. To overcome this pervasive and hostile environment takes exceptional ability.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#34

Post by larcrimacida » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:21 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #27

grugagag wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know if feeling threatened but aware this person’s contribution was not the reason for the naming but the fact that black people were supressed. It’s a generous move but not highly meritocratic. People might have a problem or two with that. I want to remind them we dont live in a meritocratic society anyway and the powerful snatch the merit away like a giant magnet. It will naturally bruise some egos and pump…

> I want to remind them we dont live in a meritocratic society The reason I love the sciences is that in general, people are more meritocratic in those circles compared to others. I've found especially in scientific academia that people are far more meritocratic compared to other disciplines. This also applies at science/engineering companies. No, not at all levels (the more business-y you get, the less of a meritocr…

You sound like a man who thinks they diserve recognition yourself and seem to be jealous. Check out your ego, you might become a more beautiful person if you shed some of it

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#35

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:21 AM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #33

Thorentis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The majority of things are named after white men to the exclusion of everyone else. That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. I'm not celebrating that fact, I'm just pointing out the source of the statistic you've pointed out. The things weren't named because the person was a white male, they were named because of a tremendous achievement that happened to be made by a w…

> That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. That's because everyone else was excluded. To overcome this pervasive and hostile environment takes exceptional ability.

Then solve the exclusion problem. Don't pretend it has already been solved by naming things after black people. It's like taking a painkiller and thinking your broken arm is fixed. Fix the problem, not the symptom.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#36

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:23 AM UTC

larcrimacida wrote: post #34

Thorentis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to remind them we dont live in a meritocratic society The reason I love the sciences is that in general, people are more meritocratic in those circles compared to others. I've found especially in scientific academia that people are far more meritocratic compared to other disciplines. This also applies at science/engineering companies. No, not at all levels (the more business-y you get, the less of a meritocr…

You sound like a man who thinks they diserve recognition yourself and seem to be jealous. Check out your ego, you might become a more beautiful person if you shed some of it

Not at all. I have achieved very little in my life, and will mostly likely spend my life reading about the great achievements of others. I enjoyed my time at university seeing the success of others and helping where I could, and I enjoy my quiet job where I can come home and forget about it and spend time with family.

You made a very big assumption about me, based purely on my preference for working environment and social environment. There is nothing jealous about wanting to see people rewarded based on merit.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#37

Post by Ar-Curunir » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:23 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #27

grugagag wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know if feeling threatened but aware this person’s contribution was not the reason for the naming but the fact that black people were supressed. It’s a generous move but not highly meritocratic. People might have a problem or two with that. I want to remind them we dont live in a meritocratic society anyway and the powerful snatch the merit away like a giant magnet. It will naturally bruise some egos and pump…

> I want to remind them we dont live in a meritocratic society The reason I love the sciences is that in general, people are more meritocratic in those circles compared to others. I've found especially in scientific academia that people are far more meritocratic compared to other disciplines. This also applies at science/engineering companies. No, not at all levels (the more business-y you get, the less of a meritocr…

As an actual scientist, no, science is not particularly meritocratic or objective. The current scientific world is highly catered towards people that can afford to devote their 20s and 30s to a low-paying job. Because of in-group dynamics, it also maintains the existing population make-up, which is predominantly white or Asian.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#38

Post by Ar-Curunir » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:25 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #32

tartoran wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who come to surface are either genial or narcisistic prize seekers. A lot of white people worth mentioning were forgotten because others trampled on them. Don’t be so sure it’s so meritocratic, thats just a myth

Most Nobel prize winners to date have been white. Would you say the majority of them sought out the prize? I've read about many of them, and most seem to have just had a great discovery that was awarded on merit. There will always be outliers that do things for the awards, but it's not a generialisation I've seen in the sciences. Should we start giving more Nobel prizes to black people just because of the color of th…

a lot of Nobel Prizes in the sciences just go to the high-profile Professors that lead projects, and not to the grad students that do most of the labour.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#39

Post by philistine » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #35

guerrilla wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. That's because everyone else was excluded. To overcome this pervasive and hostile environment takes exceptional ability.

Then solve the exclusion problem. Don't pretend it has already been solved by naming things after black people. It's like taking a painkiller and thinking your broken arm is fixed. Fix the problem, not the symptom.

That is one important way you fix the problem, by honouring again and again the few examples of minority success.

Stop trying to prevent black people from receiving praise.

Re: NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer Mary W. Jackson

#40

Post by cyberlurker » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 3:27 AM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #26

Thorentis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing meritorious about being black, or being a female, or being white, or being male. You cannot choose your race, or your biological sex. You didn't earn these traits, and you aren't a better or worse human being for having any of them. The NASA HQ was named after somebody to celebrate traits they didn't earn or choose. There are plenty of engineers that were objectively better engineers (I'm sure there…

It’s a symbolic gesture relax. While it irks you it might inspire a young black kid to become an astronomer or phisicist or astronaut. As a white there are plenty of inspiring people. Some of them have been power hungry and ruthless and nobody knows how many people they trampled on. Some of those are white symbols. Why not let balcks have their own?

As a white person who has experienced imposter syndrome at times in the tech world, I think I would have had a harder time overcoming it if I looked around and never saw another white person. Obviously that is not the case. I suspect giving young black girls someone to look up to is more powerful than people realize. If naming a building helps with that, why not do it?

Also, if we are really going to suddenly be meritocratic above all else, we must immediately remove a lot of names from things. I don't want to get too far removed from engineering, but it's a great argument for getting rid of Confederate names.