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Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

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Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#301

Post by jbay808 »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #175
HarryHirsch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you did that you'd favour profitable industries (say computing) over areas with actual shortages (say Arabic translators in Detroit). You'd also make it impossible for areas with low cost of living (Detroit) to be allocated any H1B visa. It's one of those perennial proposals that always come up but are really poorly thought out when you look into it.

If there were "actual shortages" of Arabic translators in Detroit as you suggest, market forces would drive wages up until enough people with the skills were sufficiently motivated to move to Detroit. In the case of a long-term, widespread shortage, rising salaries would lead to a widespread increase in people training to enter the industry. This is exactly what's been happening with software the past several years.

> If there were "actual shortages" of Arabic translators in Detroit as you suggest, market forces would drive wages up until enough people with the skills were sufficiently motivated to move to Detroit.

I don't know about the specific case of Arabic translators, but that's far from the only possible outcome. It's also likely that you won't find one at any price that your poor Arabic-speaking parents can possibly afford to pay to attend your parent-teacher conference meetings, and you end up with no translator at all.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#303

Post by throwmehaweh »

burlesona wrote: post #65
automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

I can understand why you’d feel that was as an individual, but as an American, for my children’s sake, I want the top 5% of every economy to keep immigrating here. That gives the US an incredible advantage in terms of innovation and growth, and I believe that rising tide really does lift us all. There are structural inequality issues and problems with upward mobility in the US which we urgently need to work on, but t…

the proclamation isn't about ending H1B, it's about pausing it to allow the US laborforce time to recover from covid

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#304

Post by throwmehaweh »

hedora wrote: post #172
hogFeast wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is also funny is that settled immigrants often have more right-wing views about immigration than people born into that society. This doesn't appear to happen in the US because of the history and the significant levels of illegal immigration today but, where I am, the group most in favour of controls on migration are settled immigrants. It seems very odd to say limiting immigration is white supremacy. The US has…

When Trump quoted “When the looting starts the shooting starts” he was encouraging lynchings. Look up the history. Along with numerous, more damning allegations, John Bolton says Trump is encouraging the Chinese to build death camps to house their ethnic minorities. Boltan is a senior republican. He served in every republican administration since Regan. In fact, he’s also a racist, so it’s pretty clear he’s not some…

> John Bolton says Trump is encouraging the Chinese to build death camps to house their ethnic minorities.

give me a break, Bolton is a hack trying to cash in at the end of his dismal career. there is no evidence for this.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#305

Post by umvi »

dang wrote: post #241
umvi wrote: post #78

There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…

This crosses into nationalistic and racial flamebait and is a big step down in discussion quality. Please don't to that in HN threads. If you have an intellectually curious point to make about this, that's fine, but venting ethnic resentment is a very different fish. Let's not go there here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23615984 .

Well, it doesn't seem right that H1Bs can vent and rant all they want about the problems they see with the H1B program and how they are getting the shaft, but the discussion can't go the other way.

A lot of non-H1Bs feel that they are getting shafted by the H1B program as well. How can those frustrations be articulated without it being considered "racial flamebait"?

No matter how you phrase it, if you as a non-H1B articulate frustrations with H1Bs and/or the H1B program, someone replying is going to mention the country/race that comprises 3/4ths of all H1Bs.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#307

Post by jmpman »

mighty_mighty wrote: post #179
georgeburdell wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a new grad, I interviewed at Qualcomm for an embedded software job. I studied hardware, and was very up-front with the hiring manager in the phone screen, and he responded “not to worry about it”. I was flown out to do an on-site interview, and the first thing that struck me, sitting in the lobby for 20 minutes while my first interviewer arrived, was that 100% of the employees who walked through the front…

This is over the board racist comment! Re-read your comment by replacing "Indian" with "Black" and see how you feel about it.

If employment was a representative percentage of the US, then you’d expect 1.3% of the employees to be Indian. He’s identifying that Indians are over represented by almost 76x. Let’s say that the company is made up of 100 engineers. In order to get 100 Indian engineers randomly, the odds are much worse than 3720 to 1. It implies immense discrimination by the employers which is systemic.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#308

Post by guyzero »

president wrote: post #282
thomaspaine wrote: post #118

ITT: People criticizing the H1B program for reasons that have nothing to do with why it was suspended, or considering the fate of people/families who are already here on H1Bs. This is a pretty obvious move by the administration to discourage immigration, in any form. Could the H1B system be more equitable to workers, more efficient, less confusing, etc? Absolutely. But suspending H1Bs and green card applications like…

Honest question. Why does nobody consider the fate of US university graduates that are up to their neck in debt and unable to find a job because companies would rather hire an H1B worker with 10 years working experience for cheap? There are large swathes of American workers that have been plunged into homelessness, drugs, or cannot feed their families because they lost their jobs to labor arbitrage. I understand that…

https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cps_charts.pdf

The unemployment rate for university graduates in the US is 7.4%, which is not great, but is considerably lower than the civilian unemployment rate of 13.3% in that same report. In past reports the unemployment rate in IT fields is even lower than that of university graduates. US university graduates have been hit the least in the covid economic downturn.

Please explain how suspending L1 visas is going to help this same set of debt-burdened American graduates. Or perhaps these people are all expected to become au pairs now that those visas have been suspended as well?

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#309

Post by dang »

umvi wrote: post #305
dang wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This crosses into nationalistic and racial flamebait and is a big step down in discussion quality. Please don't to that in HN threads. If you have an intellectually curious point to make about this, that's fine, but venting ethnic resentment is a very different fish. Let's not go there here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23615984 .

Well, it doesn't seem right that H1Bs can vent and rant all they want about the problems they see with the H1B program and how they are getting the shaft, but the discussion can't go the other way. A lot of non-H1Bs feel that they are getting shafted by the H1B program as well. How can those frustrations be articulated without it being considered "racial flamebait"? No matter how you phrase it, if you as a non-H1B ar…

I don't know how to answer that in general but there are people arguing the other side in these threads. You need to do it without turning it into a nationalistic/racial conflict. "Pushed out of your own country's industry by foreign nationals" is just over the line.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#310

Post by DarmokJalad1701 »

jmpman wrote: post #307
mighty_mighty wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is over the board racist comment! Re-read your comment by replacing "Indian" with "Black" and see how you feel about it.

If employment was a representative percentage of the US, then you’d expect 1.3% of the employees to be Indian. He’s identifying that Indians are over represented by almost 76x. Let’s say that the company is made up of 100 engineers. In order to get 100 Indian engineers randomly, the odds are much worse than 3720 to 1. It implies immense discrimination by the employers which is systemic.

Is only 1.3% of prospective qualified candidates Indian?

Using statistics from the general population is not relevant here.

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