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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#491

Post by yters »

pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

An alternate perspective is cops are trying hard, and are succeeding, at making poor neighborhoods safer. However, due to gang culture, many people are heavily and illegally armed, and do not hesitate to shoot to kill. Cops, like all humans, are not fans of dying, so they are trained to respond very quickly if armed escalation is a possibility. As an unfortunate result, innocent people are sometimes killed in these neighborhoods, despite cops doing their best to protect people. When these accidents do happen, due to the high politicization of the issue, cops are very tight lipped about what goes on in their departments. So, a lot of what we see can also be explained as good intentioned human beings doing a very difficult and dangerous job. Why are we so quick to assume the worst about our fellow citizens who are putting their lives on the line for our safety?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#492

Post by some-are-better »

vidarh wrote: post #422
randompwd wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This attitude is exactly part of the problem No, it's reallt not. The continued projection of American racial and socio-economic issues in to other English speaking countries by dimwits is the issue. If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration. > It was established in court that the windows were not illegally tinted. Yes, and the…

> If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration. I have seen it. I'm not denying the cop was calm. I called that out in my original comment. But that does not change the point I made, that he keeps dismissing her obvious signs of distress as lies or indications of guilt, and in doing so demonstrates that he does not understand that pe…

And others are likely finding it offensive that you keep trying make us disbelieve our own eyes watching that video. There is nothing there except textbook police work. If you don't know how to interact with police, perhaps stay home...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#493

Post by reccanti »

jeffdavis wrote: post #445
Erem wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not compare fear of cops to fear of criminals just based on stats -- there are qualitative differences that matter too. For example, when criminals target you, you have recourse: calling the cops. Having that option can assuage fear. However, when you learn through experience that cops themselves seek to harm you, then what? There is no recourse! Who will try the cops? If you do fight back publicly, who will st…

Maybe you are right, but there is just not any evidence presented for any of that. You are right that aggregated data is not the only thing that matters. It tends to represent only easily-quantifiable concepts. But you do have to do a sanity check with the numbers at some point, and reconcile them with the feelings/beliefs/narratives you get from the media and pop culture.

On the other hand, statistics can be arranged and presented in ways that can be misleading. At some point, if enough people are saying something, you may need to take a step back and say “what am I missing here that isn’t represented in the data?”

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#494

Post by yardie »

woeirua wrote: post #443
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even think that in most cases it's a case of wilfully ignoring. I think many, e.g several people responding to me, genuinely believe more police would lead to more security in poor neighbourhoods. The trouble as I see it is that police broadly have two functions: to respond to emergencies where violence is likely and to suppress or tax the grey and black economy (huh. just noticed the ufnordunate linguistics…

I'm not naive enough to think that adding more police is the solution, but withdrawing them is _definitely_ not the right answer either. The inescapable conclusion to withdrawing the police is: 1 - response times will go up drastically, 2 - security will deteriorate, 3 - wealthier and middle class folks will stop visiting/living in those areas because of #1 and #2, 4 - the tax base will evaporate, 5 - the infrastruct…

If you believe that 3, 4, and 5 had anything to do with the police in the 20th century then you should probably read up a whole lot more. From my perspective 3, 4, and 5 are what causes 1 and 2.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#495

Post by tehwebguy »

blub wrote: post #314
vidarh wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We recently had a case in the UK where a prominent (as in winning the British Empire Medal for her services to nursing prominent) nurse was stopped by police, and was too scared to get out of the car. When she told the police this, their response was "I don’t believe you because you’re talking to police officers." She ended up being arrested for obstruction because they kept failing to understand that her reluctance…

Unless one lives in Mexico, where the police assassinate people regularly, being terrified of the police - especially in Europe - doesn't fly as an excuse. This is the fault of the media which is fishing for clicks and demonizing the police to the point that people are becoming paranoid.

Police executing people in the streets with impunity is the reason, actually!

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#496

Post by pnako »

hef19898 wrote: post #446
pnako wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France, there are definitely a few. There are places where even the fire brigade gets attacked. That's why they're called "no-go zones". The police can still go there but only with heavy means; you can't just send a random police car with two cops there, you need special units in riot gear. The French term commonly used in the media is "zones de non droit" meaning "areas outside of the law" or sometimes, perhaps m…

Interesting. My wife is french, never really about that. Also, Berlin is assumed to have some. I drank beer in bar in one of those once. Found about it later. So, I assume a lot of propaganda around that?

Why would it be propaganda? Is it inconceivable for you that such places could exist?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#497

Post by unethical_ban »

jeffdavis wrote: post #330
Anechoic wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blacks are killed by police disproportionately by a factor of around 2-3x The fear may be there, but I don't see it justified in the numbers. It's not just about getting killed - it's about getting unfairly fined, arrested, beaten, jailed, and so on. From my own life experience, the fear is warranted.

Do you have aggregate numbers on how that compares to getting similar treatment from criminals?

You keep on asking for quantitative proof that the citizens of a democracy are scared of their police system.

Recent protests and police reactions should be a starting point.

I assume you ignored and downvoted my other comment explaining the philosophy behind it, so I won't repost it.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#498

Post by _bxg1 »

khc wrote: post #481
_bxg1 wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Zimmerman was not a police officer

George Zimmerman was part of neighborhood watch, what do you think will replace police?

That's not remotely relevant to what was being asked

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#499

Post by [deleted] »

slim wrote: post #463
dragonwriter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police They are both worried about criminals. The fact that some criminals have badges and guns and a conspiracy of accomplices in positions of power shielding them from accountability for their crimes doesn't make them any less criminals. > Just to sp…

I thought BLM started in response to police violence against Trayvon Martin. Did I miss something?

[deleted]

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#500

Post by dmkolobov »

air7 wrote: post #475
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I just don't get it. The number of unarmed black men shot by police across the entire US in 2019 was 14. [0] How does such a small number spark this level of fear and protest? Also, do people actually think the police generally and on average does more harm than good as to request abolishing it? [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police...

Killing is the worst and least likely outcome. The more likely one is getting brutalized/falsely imprisoned on your way home from work, in your home, in your yard, etc. These situations are not rare, especially in the lives of black and brown people.

I've lived in neighborhoods in Denver where people didn't call the police. Not because they feared retribution from others, but because over and over the police have hurt them, their family, or their friends. And examples of them helping in those neighborhoods are much harder to come by( I can't think of a single time? ). The general feeling is that the police are not there to help you, they are there to watch you and keep you in line.

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