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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#471

Post by freen »

centimeter wrote: post #201
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

> because from their point of view the police are the people most likely to assault or kill them or their children on the street This is a delusion - they are at least 2 orders of magnitude more likely to be assaulted or killed by another (non-police) black person. This is yet another scenario where a relatively minor source of risk gets vastly disproportionate coverage and almost everyone falls for it. ETA: it’s fun…

One third of all people killed by strangers, are killed by cops[0]

Cops take more in assets than robbers. [1]

[0] https://granta.com/violence-in-blue/

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-...

Nota Bene: your down votes are from a lack of evidence combined with an aggressive demeanor. Neither are a good look.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#472

Post by chinesempire »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #432
asjw wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, both of the previous answers prove my point US is a a dangerous country and the police is not doing a good job at all If there are so many homicides, who should prevent them? If after killing a hundred people a month (by shooting at them, I presented only the numbers of those killed by a police shooting) they can't even make a dent on the (horrible) numbers, it means they are doing a very bad job. Tertium non d…

How do you know they aren't making a dent in the numbers? You don't know, and can't know, the counter factual. One anecdote though, police are doing less policing right now in cities like Chicago, and the the outcome is not looking good. At least 106 people shot, 14 fatally, in Chicago weekend violence https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-week...

It's pretty easy to say when your stats are 10 times worse than a similar developed country and look more like a developing country where warlords are in charge

Or, in US police is at war

Which is equally bad

EDIT: to give more context

If poverty rate in US was worse than in Nigeria, people would say that something went horribly wrong

Homicide rate in US is actually 1.5 times worse than Nigeria and two times worse than Uganda and Congo

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#473

Post by vidarh »

morganw wrote: post #459
vidarh wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest thing: * Change rules of engagement for police to emphasise de-escalation when possible and gradual escalation when absolutely necessary. E.g. in the UK police won't even have firearms on them most of the time unless specifically called to deal with a suspected incident involving weapons, but even if they do, the focus tends to be on de-escalation and waiting the situation out if possible (e.g. someone sa…

> gradual escalation Part of the reason for the quick escalation is that (American) cops are taught things like the Tueller Drill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwHYRBNc9r8 that claims that an attacker can close 21 feet in 1500 milliseconds and stab a victim so many times that even a fast ambulance response won't save him from bleeding out. This idea means the cop has to unholster a pistol as soon as any sign of non…

The response to that would be that part of the reason you'll see UK police most of the time get people out of the way if they can, keep their distance and call for backup and be patient unless there are people in immediate danger.

Since UK police only exceptionally carry firearms, they have to play things safer. E.g. respond with more people. Keeping greater distance.

But lots of other police forces have - sometimes heavily - armed police with better results because they effectively act on the basis that using their weapon is an absolute last resort, and so you keep your distance if there's a risk they're armed, and call for backup rather than approach etc.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#474

Post by glitcher »

austincheney wrote: post #335
glitcher wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. The OP's comment may be poorly worded, but in the context of current events your contributions to this discussion show virtually no sign of attempting to make good faith arguments.

I am advocating for data and accountability over agreement and hysteria. It appears, to me, you are equating my lack of immediate agreement to bad faith.

Agreement is not the goal of discussions or debate. Perhaps if you articulated your advocacy for data and accountability with a little more substance earlier on we would be enjoying a more productive debate about the issue.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#475

Post by air7 »

pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I just don't get it.

The number of unarmed black men shot by police across the entire US in 2019 was 14. [0] How does such a small number spark this level of fear and protest?

Also, do people actually think the police generally and on average does more harm than good as to request abolishing it?

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#476

Post by chinesempire »

drpgq wrote: post #453
noobaccount wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, how can we be more like Italy?

Having an aged population certainly helps. Not a lot of 80 year old gangbangers.

If people die young they don't get to live enough to become old

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#477

Post by _bxg1 »

slim wrote: post #463
dragonwriter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police They are both worried about criminals. The fact that some criminals have badges and guns and a conspiracy of accomplices in positions of power shielding them from accountability for their crimes doesn't make them any less criminals. > Just to sp…

I thought BLM started in response to police violence against Trayvon Martin. Did I miss something?

George Zimmerman was not a police officer

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#478

Post by vidarh »

blub wrote: post #447
vidarh wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration. I have seen it. I'm not denying the cop was calm. I called that out in my original comment. But that does not change the point I made, that he keeps dismissing her obvious signs of distress as lies or indications of guilt, and in doing so demonstrates that he does not understand that pe…

If the officer was calm and professional I don't know what more you want from them. It's not the job of the police to hold the hands of every paranoid individual and shush them back to a state of tranquility. Is Theresa May some sort of authority on policing that her name keeps being mentioned here? As an external observer it seems that she was a complete failure at everything during her tenure, surely there's someon…

> If the officer was calm and professional I don't know what more you want from them.

I said calm, not professional. I consider his failure to notice her distress and panic to make him totally unsuited to work with the public in pretty much any capacity. It was blatantly obvious that she was in distress. Had he seen someone acting like that towards someone not a police officer, he'd have run to assist in what would have seemed like a dangerous situation on the basis of her reaction.

He was blinded by a failure to understand that someone could react with that kind of fear to the police, and as a result proceeded to completely counter-productively escalate a situation that need not have been escalated at all.

> It's not the job of the police to hold the hands of every paranoid individual and shush them back to a state of tranquility.

A large part of the job of the police is to deal with people in distress; often with mental health issues. If they are unable to deal with people in distress with empathy they're not suitable to do the job.

> Is Theresa May some sort of authority on policing that her name keeps being mentioned here? As an external observer it seems that she was a complete failure at everything during her tenure, surely there's someone more appropriate that offered an opinion on this topic.

The point is that even she accepted the report that Cameron commissioned that demonstrated extensive systemic racism in the Met, despite the reluctance of her party to deal with racism in general. Someone else posted a bunch of links about systemic racism in the UK. At this point it is willful ignorance to suggest this isn't a real problem.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#479

Post by buzzerbetrayed »

kerkeslager wrote: post #39

I keep seeing this narrative where people say, "We need law enforcement to prevent crimes, we can't defund the police." And I 100% agree, we need law enforcement. But the police aren't law enforcement if they refuse to enforce the laws .

> But the police aren't law enforcement if they refuse to enforce the laws.

Sure. That's obviously true. However, not very helpful to the discussion as you don't state what percent of police officers "refuse to enforce the laws"

Do 100% of police officers refuse to enforce laws? 50%? 5%. Surely that's more beneficial to talk about than simply saying "the sky isn't blue if it isn't blue".

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#480

Post by aaronblohowiak »

mac01021 wrote: post #461

There are basically two things that the police do: 1> Patrol public spaces to deter illegal behavior in those places, direct traffic, punish traffic offenders, offer directions to tourists, etc 2> Respond to calls from citizens, investigate the crimes that those calls are about, locate and apprehend the associated criminals. I've only lived in places sparsely populated enough that is mostly impractical except along h…

Only 60% of murders are solved. https://www.vox.com/2018/9/24/17896034/murder-crime-clearanc...
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