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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#461
There are basically two things that the police do:

1> Patrol public spaces to deter illegal behavior in those places, direct traffic, punish traffic offenders, offer directions to tourists, etc

2> Respond to calls from citizens, investigate the crimes that those calls are about, locate and apprehend the associated criminals.

I've only lived in places sparsely populated enough that is mostly impractical except along highways and around major construction sites.

The VAST majority of the value provided to people by the police clearly comes from - it's the reason that no sane person would mug me (or kill me) for $40 cash on an unpatrolled country road, or invade my home and take up residence there against my will. 99.9% of citizens benefit from , as it's the main deterrent to any antisocial person coming and taking whatever they have of value.

It seems to me (though I don't have data) that most (nearly all?) the mistreatment of (maybe mainly black) citizens by police that has been garnering media attention over the past decade or so, happens during the course of .

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, you can't bring a body in with a zillion bullet holes and tell the coroner it was suicide. But you can bring in a body that was in the backseat of your cop car, handcuffed behind the back, and with two shotgun wounds to the chest and tell the coroner it was suicide, and have it signed off on...

How many times do you believe that happens in a year, and what evidence do you have for that belief?

How many times of this or similar things happening do you find acceptable? Or tolerable?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#463
post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

> Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police They are both worried about criminals. The fact that some criminals have badges and guns and a conspiracy of accomplices in positions of power shielding them from accountability for their crimes doesn't make them any less criminals. > Just to sp…

I thought BLM started in response to police violence against Trayvon Martin. Did I miss something?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then advocate for better data. You either want accountability or you just want to have something to complain about.

Literally every person who is advocating for greater police accountability is, by definition, advocating for better data. I don't think there's an argument here about that. The point of disagreement would seem to be, most people don't believe being unable to fully quantify the corruption of the police means it does not exist.

The point isn’t whether there is corruption or not. In any government there is always some degree of perceived corruption. The point is the prevalence of corruption. Without some form of objective measure claiming corruption is largely meaningless, because there is nothing specifically identifiable to change.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#465
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of any psychological label, the woman is clearly panicking, and the panic is caused by the police interaction. Being afraid and panicking is not illegal. If the police wanted to do this differently, they could issue a ticket for inspection, throw it in the car, and move on with their day. But instead they chose to get in a power struggle.

Not complying with a lawful order _is_ illegal.

The point being that the lawful order was unnecessary and they could have deescalated, but chose to force her to comply.

Over window tinting.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#466
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Black people. "Blacks" sounds totally dehumanising. As a black person, I'm grateful for this feedback. Thank you.

Glad to help. Perhaps this is an American thing then? It would raise eyebrows at least in the UK.

I live in the USA, and I've mainly heard "blacks" used by older people, or casually racist people who have had bad experiences with black people. For example, my father and grandfather both say it, and they're both working class white people who've had some bad experiences living and working in lower income areas just outside Baltimore. It's not the kind of thing someone would get fired over, but it's a pretty good indication of their mindset towards minorities.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#467
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Split second? The officer hadn't even drawn his gun when Brooks fired the Taser. He made the decision to draw his gun in the first place already knowing that the Taser Brooks held was depleted.

It's on video and that's clearly not true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnHecVdUysQ The officer starts reaching for his gun between seconds 4 and 5, Brooks fires the tazer in second 5 and then is shot at the end of second 6.

Are you serious? It's clearly true. The officer's gun remains in its holster until after Brooks fires the Taser — you can tell because his right arm is still vertical. The NYT has a good breakdown: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/us/videos-rayshard-brooks...

And regardless, let's not move the goalposts to consider only the time after Brooks fired the Taser. After all, it's not like that was the first opportunity the officer had to calculate how many shots it had left.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the Roma have never had a problem with systemic racism?

On the level of black Americans? Probably not, no. Literal slavery is not the same level of oppression as discrimination.

> On the level of black Americans? Probably not, no

Roma were literally being sent to death camps to be exterminated throughout much of Europe 75 years ago.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#469
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please stop spreading nonsense. This attitude is exactly part of the problem > Also, you can see the full bodycam footage and UK peoples take on this stop at https://old.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/hbbhkb/a_calm_col... . The bodycam footage is in the article I linked too, thank you, and the comments on that sub are disgusting examples of exactly the lack of understanding I described. > Bear in mind she was stopp…

> This attitude is exactly part of the problem No, it's reallt not. The continued projection of American racial and socio-economic issues in to other English speaking countries by dimwits is the issue. If you actually watched the (heavily edited by the guardian) video, you would see the cop was calm and polite the entire duration. > It was established in court that the windows were not illegally tinted. Yes, and the…

When I put myself in the place of the constable, he seemed to be calm and polite. I understand how frustrating it is when you are trying to do your job and people won't cooperate.

That is not the question.

The assertion is that the lady was terrified, the constable failed to acknowledge this, and failed to act appropriately.

The constable doesn't seem like a raging racist to me. That makes this video even more important to learn from. Let me recap.

1. The car was not moving. 2. It was dark. 3. The constable thinks the window is too tinted, but it's hard to tell in the dark. 4. The lady doesn't want to be handled by police. 5. The constable agrees to get a woman officer on site, but is suspicious about the civilian's failure to cooperate. 6. The constable is irritated about being defied. 7. The officer chooses not to wait 10 minutes for the lady officer to arrive.

The end result is a confrontation between a civilian and police officers, then somebody jailed for legally tinted windows.

I am not black. I cannot completely put myself in the woman's place. But I don't have to do that to see problems here.

1. Making an issue of a parked car with possibly tinted windows after dark is a clear fishing expedition. It doesn't have to be racially motivated to be wrong.

2. De-escalate. De-escalate. De-escalate. Just chill for 10 minutes and let the lady officer show up. While you're waiting, ask the woman about the weather, if she's done anything interesting that day. Did she pay to have the windows tinted? Small talk. Build some rapport. Maybe even just outline a bit of what is going to happen when the lady officer does show up.

If the constable was suspicious about the tinting, the most he would have expected was to write a citation. But he was prepared from the very beginning to smash windows and detain by force if necessary. Why would that be necessary? Why was there some expectation of that from the outset?

The fellow seems nice. He seems polite. He seems very suspicious. He acts suspicious. He escalates when he is defied. There's no real way around it. He picked a fight. That's not nice.

I can totally see myself mishandling this situation. To me, that makes it a great video to pick apart and study inside and out to learn from.

Lesson #1: Why did you approach the car in the first place? What was your true suspicion? What was your real intent?

Be honest. This is really, really important. Getting this answer right really, really matters.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#470
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That really doesn't matter that much. I assure you it matters to the victims and their families. And I don’t disagree about the morality of police abusing their powers...but a death is a death and a tragedy is a tragedy. No one is celebrating the death of their loved one no matter what the killers skin color or occupation. > That is so much worse than a stranger doing those things. Again it’s not like the victim of…

> I assure you it matters to the victims and their families. Your assurance is no different than my opinion. You are speaking for victims just as I am, but I've been hurt by people I trust and I've been hurt by strangers. They aren't equal to me and I don't think I'm alone in that. > Again it’s not like the victim of a sexual assault is saying thank god I was rapped by a non-officer. If you think that is what I was t…

> An example of this is a police office in San Diego sexually assaulted (forced oral sex) 16 women after going to their house after they called the police to report a crime. That is so much worse than a stranger doing those things.

I’m the first to welcome enhanced penalties for officers committing crimes in their official capacity...but I find your words very disturbing.

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