My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works • Hacker News Board

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#151

Post by genoapol » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

jf22 wrote: post #80

treis wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bringing up "black-on-black crime" is a common disingenuous tactic to distract from conversations about police brutality. It's part of the story, though. The incident in the linked article started because a group of teens jumped another and stole his phone. If that's happening 10x as often then innocent kids in that neighborhood are going to be 10x as likely to be swept up in police action.

The problem is people don't deny black-on-black crime is a problem. Society is in agreement that we don't want that. Bring up racism and police brutality though and people strongly deny it's a problem.

Black on black crime should be really labeled poor on poor crime. Also there is something unqiue about the US experience, black people in the UK commit crime at a much lower rate than white people in the US.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#152

Post by uoaei » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #149

uoaei wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nonsensical question. How does one measure "corruption" and how do you quantify it? IMO these sorts of questions are kneejerk reactions without any significant fore- or after-thought. They only serve to disrupt the conversation.

Corruption is a provable violation of ethics which is measurable. In so many of these police related threads on HN lately people make absurd claims and then are upset when asked about data or objectivity, which suggests people are looking to complain about something and don’t want their complaint validated with data, which is strange.

What ethics? And how can you prove anything if cops always defend their own?

In an ideal world where we have an oracle telling us which cops are good and which are bad your comment makes sense. But the nature of corruption is to obfuscate its dealings. You can't just say "well we need independent oversight" then because there are so many institutional pivot points where cops can hide their abhorrent behavior before it gets to see the light of day.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#153

Post by austincheney » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #117

austincheney wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there evidence that indicates police are more corrupt than anybody else?

Even if they were equally corrupt to everyone else, they have much, much more authority to use violence and be shielded from the consequences. We should demand that they are significantly less corrupt than everyone else.

I completely agree, but the point still stands that insinuating corruption is a straw man when it’s not based on anything.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#154

Post by mistersquid » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #135

pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

> Notice that while average white parents Perhaps that distinction is more pronounced in some locations than others. I don’t see this distinction in the big city where I live and each of my neighbors are black. We have regular police patrols where I live and almost no police interventions. We also have several police officers that live in the neighborhood. My city has greater than 900,000 people, is about 60% white,…

> I don’t see this distinction in the big city where I live and each of my neighbors are black.

Not to put too fine a point on it and with all due respect, but are you black? Have you asked your black neighbors about it?

I am half-black and was raised in California. I have lived in SF for the last 10 years.

While I have not directly been troubled by police in SF, I put myself on notice every. Single. Time. I go outside.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#155

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

jibcage wrote: post #16

joshuaheard wrote: post #11

Why is "Black" capitalized, but "white" is not?

“For many people, Black reflects a shared sense of identity and community. White carries a different set of meanings; capitalizing the word in this context risks following the lead of white supremacists.” https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

[deleted]

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#156

Post by machinehermit » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

randomcarbloke wrote: post #68

jeffbee wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is in the forward probabilities. Most people who are murdered by criminals are socially connected to their murderers, e.g. they are in gangs. People who are killed by police are killed without that connection, and there's little they could have done about it.

not necessarily on both counts. But interactions with police are less likely to go smoothly if you're black, and you're more likely to have those interactions, so the perceived threat is real, it's like being into extreme sports. So I guess that is my assessment of black life in America...it's an "extreme sport" and it shouldn't be.

I don't know how you really measure that though.

I am white and I have never once had a "good" interaction with a cop. Quite the opposite.

Actually, I am pretty sure there is a massive difference in experience with cops if you are a white woman vs a white man.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#157

Post by jasonwatkinspdx » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #77

trowawee wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing up "black-on-black crime" is a common disingenuous tactic to distract from conversations about police brutality. Most violence is committed by people you're around, and in an intensely segregated country, that will usually be people that are the same race as you. It's a complete digression from the actual conversation here, which is about agents of the state, entrusted to act as enforcers of the state's mono…

It is a tactic commonly used as you say. It's also a relevant statistic here, although all race on black violence would have been even better. It still serves to support the point quite clearly that police are not to be feared as much as criminals, even if you're black. Having said that, a lot of criminal violence happens if you're mixed up in that world or frequenting a bad area as opposed to just random violence. T…

It's totally irrelevant. Most white people are killed by white people too. It's an effect of de facto segregation in society. Most crime is proximate.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#158

Post by psychometry » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #149

uoaei wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nonsensical question. How does one measure "corruption" and how do you quantify it? IMO these sorts of questions are kneejerk reactions without any significant fore- or after-thought. They only serve to disrupt the conversation.

Corruption is a provable violation of ethics which is measurable. In so many of these police related threads on HN lately people make absurd claims and then are upset when asked about data or objectivity, which suggests people are looking to complain about something and don’t want their complaint validated with data, which is strange.

Considering we're not allowed to see officer disciplinary records, even though they work for us (the taxpayer), it's impossible to get the data you want.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#159

Post by elliotpo » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

Even if you chose to argue statistical frames, as I'm seeing so much in this thread, you're not factoring the ripple effects that must surely be caused by the knowledge that official agents of power view you and your family as inherently, or very potentially inherently, dangerous. It doesn't take a critical mass of groundless violence (even if that mass does indeed exist)-- but just some of it, left unaccounted (or even defended) by those same official agents. Such a message is bound to resonate broadly and cause what should be a comprehensible outcry from, for example, the mother quoted in this article. I'm saying that you might consider the nonchalant (at best) response to such violent incidents.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#160

Post by dhosek » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #81

dhosek wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then Walmart should have a spy agency because they're bigger than some countries?

Walmart is not an executive agency of an elected government, so no.

And New York is not a sovereign nation so...