Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them • Hacker News Board

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#321

Post by buo » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #250

buo wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean to say that I have had absolutely no interaction with any existing Apple or Google service or technology. I'm neither a fundamentalist nor a hermit. Rather, whenever it is my choice, I prefer to select products and technologies that don't belong to Apple, Google or similar companies.

Sorry, I did a poor job of making my point. @hkarthik implied that it's impossible to use technology and also boycott Apple and/or Google. I agree with them. You seemed to disagree by saying that you do boycott Apple and Google. The point I was trying to make is that you're part of their revenue stream even if you yourself don't have any consumer relationship with them. That's why they feel like a monopoly to so many…

I can see your point now. Indeed they can feel inescapable.

One thing I try to do is to minimize how much revenue they get out of me. For example, I use uBlock Origin and uMatrix to block their ads and scripts, their cookies, Google Analytics, etcetera. I hope they are losing money on me, that'd make my day!

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#322

Post by heavyset_go » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #295

thephyber wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spend money or attention on a site that pays Google as a vendor, that is quite obviously indirect support of Google. Perhaps we are just quibbling about which definition of the word "support"? In which case I agree that there is one definition of support in which you are right and another in which your parent is right.

That's about as much support for Google as if I bought a product from a storefront that's in a building owned by a landlord who supports a cause I don't agree with. First of all, I (as a consumer) would have no idea who owned that building, and secondly the link between my purchase and money flowing to that unsavory cause is so far removed that it's not even worth considering. Go far enough down any business transact…

> as if I bought a product from a storefront that's in a building owned by a landlord who supports a cause I don't agree with.

There are plenty of people who would look at this situation, and do whatever they can to make sure they don't enable that person.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#323

Post by buo » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #296

buo wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have avoided commercial smartphone products entirely, yes, and very much on purpose. I have not avoided technology in general, not by a long shot.

The statement wasn't "you avoided technology", it was "you avoided the technology".

To be more clear: I have avoided the commercial use of smartphone technology as it exists today, because for me its drawbacks are unacceptable. So, I am not a user of that technology, but I do not oppose the basic principle of mobile, universal, cheap computing and communication.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#324

Post by heavyset_go » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #285

jonny_eh wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Changing the rules hurts all developers who already abide by them. I don't follow the logic here. > people are just entitled and think the only reason their adtech shovelware is failing is because of Apple If Hey was funded by shovelware ads it would have been approved by Apple. Instead it's funded by a $99 subscription, which the developer refused to give $32 of to Apple, so it was rejected.

> I don't follow the logic here. Developers who followed the guidelines and accepted the terms will lose if the terms are changed to benefit those who aren't in it. Apps have paid the 30% fee for years - now everyone gets a free pass? Very unfair. > If Hey was funded by shovelware ads it would have been approved by Apple. Instead it's funded by a $99 subscription, which the developer refused to give $32 of to Apple,…

> Developers who followed the guidelines and accepted the terms will lose if the terms are changed to benefit those who aren't in it. Apps have paid the 30% fee for years - now everyone gets a free pass? Very unfair.

Following this logic, cures for cancer are "very unfair", as countless people died before a cure was invented. Not very fair to all of those people that fought cancer on their own or died.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#325

Post by Terretta » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 11:37 PM UTC

LordDragonfang wrote: post #305

willyt wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But 95% of computers sold ran windows then. 10% of computers run MacOS now and maybe 20% of phones. Just buy a different computer, or don't... Or if you are a developer, make software for Windows or Android instead.

>maybe 20% of phones Sure, if you're just counting units sold. But by total app store revenue, the metric that actually matters , they account for well over two thirds of the market.

because people care about the ecosystem and that has real monetary value to all three (consumer, seller, marketplace)

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#326

Post by chrisco255 » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 12:06 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #316

chrisco255 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I ever explicitly say the US in my comment? No. However, the entire case against Microsoft was built on its anticompetitive practices against Netscape. And Microsoft lost. In the US, "The proposed settlement required Microsoft to share its application programming interfaces with third-party companies and appoint a panel of three people who would have full access to Microsoft's systems, records, and source code fo…

I specifically said in the comment that you replied to “Nor were they required to allow other default browsers in the US .” The parallels aren’t similar. Apple has less than 50% market share in the US and even less in Europe. Every console maker does the same as Apple.

There is no percentage-based threshold for antitrust. Price fixing, anticompetitive activities, cornering markets, etc can all trigger antitrust violations. Mobile computing is a far more important and mission critical foundation of modern life than video gaming. This is why there's a big push for net neutrality. The Federal government has all the authority it needs to regulate Apple if they decide it's worth doing. I support reigning in big tech.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#327

Post by jonny_eh » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 8:02 PM UTC

jpttsn wrote: post #314

jonny_eh wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Apple ban non App Store apps from Macs too? Doesn't your argument extend to computers? Why would phones or tablets be different.

I hope they don’t, but if they did I would either accept it, circumvent it (jailbreak) or stop using Macs. It’s their choice and I’m entirely informed.

> or stop using Macs

I would too, but I'd be upset because I like Macs. I also like iPhones.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#328

Post by jonny_eh » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #285

jonny_eh wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Changing the rules hurts all developers who already abide by them. I don't follow the logic here. > people are just entitled and think the only reason their adtech shovelware is failing is because of Apple If Hey was funded by shovelware ads it would have been approved by Apple. Instead it's funded by a $99 subscription, which the developer refused to give $32 of to Apple, so it was rejected.

> I don't follow the logic here. Developers who followed the guidelines and accepted the terms will lose if the terms are changed to benefit those who aren't in it. Apps have paid the 30% fee for years - now everyone gets a free pass? Very unfair. > If Hey was funded by shovelware ads it would have been approved by Apple. Instead it's funded by a $99 subscription, which the developer refused to give $32 of to Apple,…

> If you want to be listed on Amazon, you sell, you pay a fee

> You don't want to pay fees you can use CraigsList

That's great, Amazon's not the only option. On the iPhone, Apple's the only one allowed to sell apps, that sucks for consumers.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#329

Post by ryneandal » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 12:08 AM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #61

ryneandal wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I feel as though it's akin to saying "if you don't like America, leave!" Voiced legitimate concern can bring positive change.

With that small caveat that "legitimate" is solely defined by the powerful.

Touche, but the truth of your point made me sad.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#330

Post by ryneandal » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 12:11 AM UTC

eyerony wrote: post #112

ryneandal wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you entirely. I love what they're doing with hardware. I am fascinated with their SoC/SiPs. My kids are wildly successful with iOS/MacOS UIs in comparison to the competiton (especially ChromeOS, good lord is that a usability nightmare), and I think this speaks volumes about the quality of their ui/ux investment.

> especially ChromeOS, good lord is that a usability nightmare My dad recently got one of these to have something simpler since all he really needs is a web browser, and damn, you aren't kidding. Like, the OS isn't even that "big" here, guys, how is it so thoroughly mediocre? The accessibility settings in particular are like something from the 90s, after being used to what modern iOS and macOS offer. Felt like a half…

You're right on the money. It's entirely unacceptable considering how heavy-handed the push towards chromebooks were for educational institutions. My 10 year old has been in a public school where they used Chromebooks, and a charter school where they used iPads, and the conversations regarding tech I'd have with her teachers were night and day. Constant issues and support with the chromebooks, and the iPads "just worked."

Apple is not without it's faults, but when UI/UX is concerned, Google, heck all of us, should strive to put forth more effort to try to think things all the way through.