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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#301

Post by jpttsn »

alkonaut wrote: post #120
hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

That’s a very cumbersome a way of getting what I want. It’s much better and easier if e.g the EU simply makes Apple do the right thing by force. The market doesn’t solve this kind of problem.

Indeed. And if my local restaurant doesn’t have a nice table for me, it’s much easier if Tony Soprano can have a little talk with the owner.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#302

Post by jpttsn »

viklove wrote: post #243
zepto wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying all three of Microsoft, Google, and Apple are unethical?

Unequivocally yes, MS, Google, and Apple are all deeply unethical. This is proven in their business practices as well as their manufacturing practices. The problem is we live in a society that values money over all else, including human suffering and fair access to markets.

It must be even easier to stop working with these unethical companies if you don’t value money that much.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#303

Post by scarface74 »

Krasnol wrote: post #299
scarface74 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Apple “control” the market? Is Apple forcing users to pay an average of three times more for an iPhone than an Android device? Is it Apple’s fault that Android manufactures+Google can’t come up with a device that people are willing to pay more for?

No, they are creating an locked in environment where switching is hard while switching is easy on Android. So you end up with 2 different groups/(markets?). One ready to pay more but locked in and another group wanting to pay less for more with a variety of hardware choices and companies betting against each other for a lower price on same hardware/specifications. Apple therefore controls the price for their locked i…

How is switching “hard”? I can pick up an Android device, sign into all of my subscription based services and everything just works. My photos are already synced with Google Photos, music I bought back in the day is DRM free and Apple Music is available on Android.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#304

Post by LordDragonfang »

evilduck wrote: post #271
sepiatone wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Walmart cannot stop another supermarket from opening in the same area, Verizon cannot stop you from bringing another phone to their network. Android allows other stores. Cows? Oh wait, you've got me there.

You sure about that? Small town businesses have lamented Walmart moving in for ages, Verizon can _absolutely_ prevent another phone from joining their network, they even charge activation fees on top of it all. And Android _is_ the alternative store if you don't like shopping on iOS, and the monopoly holder to boot. I can't run .ipa files on Android either, why can't we sue Google for not supporting that SDK, since t…

While I agree with everything you're saying, Google's android literally allows you to install third party app stores and even sideload apps. Google does not behave at all like Apple in that regard.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#305

Post by LordDragonfang »

willyt wrote: post #194
YayamiOmate wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their app store is on their devices. They forbid any other similar service. So they creted a platforn and enforce service. Thats creating playground, rules and playing the game. Remember microsoft was subjected to antitrust regulations for providing web browser with the os. This was considered unfair practice. Forcing people to give up 30 of revenue goes much much further. By giving customers no choice, it's limiting…

But 95% of computers sold ran windows then. 10% of computers run MacOS now and maybe 20% of phones. Just buy a different computer, or don't... Or if you are a developer, make software for Windows or Android instead.

>maybe 20% of phones

Sure, if you're just counting units sold. But by total app store revenue, the metric that actually matters, they account for well over two thirds of the market.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#306

Post by LordDragonfang »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #193
smnrchrds wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal It's even worse than that. Even if you leave Apple ecosystem, you are still subject to it. Consumers don't like paying different prices based on the platform they are using. They will feel cheated. For this reason, app and service developers almost always price their products the same across all platforms. If a service d…

If you open it up, what you end up with is, no one pays for your app, because there is 20 other free ones that are good enough. Developers all want into the walled garden because it is a great walled garden, consumers are very happy, they trust it more, they spend more. But when you let everything in, it becomes a dumpster fire of crapware, and people overall spend less. https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-users-sp…

I always saw sources like yours to be a bit of "confirming the obvious". Of course the average iphone user spends more, the average iphone user has a more expensive phone, and therefore more disposable income. Android has cheap handsets, Apple does not.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#307

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

learc83 wrote: post #290
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can "extend" any argument to an absurd extreme. It isn't absurd - it's unfair to transmission manufacturers that they have to follow Toyota's rules! The horror! Everything should be allowed for everyone! Otherwise it's oppression! It's not my crappy business model, no, I can't take responsibility. > It's more like if Toyota installed a radio that blocked transmission of all radio shows that didn't pay a percent…

>It isn't absurd - it's unfair to transmission manufacturers that they have to follow Toyota's rules! The horror! Everything should be allowed for everyone! Otherwise it's oppression! It's not my crappy business model, no, I can't take responsibility. Kick rocks >Perfect example to prove my point. The radio is already regulated by the FCC - if it wasn't, and anyone could stream garbage however they please, like the p…

> You realize that allowing a competing app store, more easily allowing side-loading apps, or not forcing apps to use apple pay for subscriptions wouldn't stop people from using the curated app store.

Yes you would - the big part of curation is to prevent malware, or abuse, of the end user. Allowing these others ruins the consumer experience, that directly impacts Apple and I don't blame them.

> If as you say people would pay good money for curation if both options are available, then Apple's business model (and I'm guessing from your extreme defensiveness, yours) wouldn't suffer because people would keep voluntarily using it. No one is going to make customers side-load apps, or use a competing app store.

People already pay for that experience when they buy the iPhone. If they didn't want that experience, they can get an Android. There are also other OSes out there.

This is developer sour grapes, mad because he can't use Apple's service for free to make him more money. For a glorified crappy email application. It's so "entitled silicon valley" I can't even take it.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#308

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

LordDragonfang wrote: post #306
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you open it up, what you end up with is, no one pays for your app, because there is 20 other free ones that are good enough. Developers all want into the walled garden because it is a great walled garden, consumers are very happy, they trust it more, they spend more. But when you let everything in, it becomes a dumpster fire of crapware, and people overall spend less. https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-users-sp…

I always saw sources like yours to be a bit of "confirming the obvious". Of course the average iphone user spends more, the average iphone user has a more expensive phone, and therefore more disposable income. Android has cheap handsets, Apple does not.

Don't be so certain - if you add up the top competitors to the iPhone (just as expensive Samsungs, Huawei, etc), they're about the same amount as iPhones. Do these people not have disposable income?

The gap is quite obvious - because of the multitude of free alternatives on android, users are far more likely to not spend. The competition is way higher.

Developers want to destroy the walled garden but the fact is their product will be instantly devalued.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#309

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

learc83 wrote: post #292
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't think that segment really exists. The ones that would search that out will just as likely be on android as iPhone. If 33% of such an app is enough to cause this much angst, it makes me think it just isn't that popular.

>Honestly, I don't think that segment really exists. The ones that would search that out will just as likely be on android as iPhone. Why. The type of people who want a curated mail experience might just happen to be the type of people who like the curated iPhone experience. >If 33% of such an app is enough to cause this much angst, it makes me think it just isn't that popular. Why 33%? If you're right and they're ju…

> Why. The type of people who want a curated mail experience might just happen to be the type of people who like the curated iPhone experience.

Even if this were true (doubtful), that doesn't mean there is a segment. A handful may like this application. I can't imagine the market for a ridiculously expensive email client that isn't functional is large. In fact, it's so small, that it can't take the shock of paying 15-30% fee for the advertisement, easy transfer to customer, easy place for reviews, and updates, in other words, a platform with access to a large array of consumers willing to spend for good software.

What's more likely is this - the app is struggling to make money, they cheated the rules and they know it, so why not turn it into a marketing campaign. Apple the big bad (meanwhile the company cheated the system, while developers who followed the rules get screwed).

> Why 33%? If you're right and they're just as likely to seek out android it's going to be 50%. If I'm right it's going to be much higher than that. Where are you getting 33% from?

I'm not sure what you're talking about, could you be more clear? 33% really means the 15-30% of revenue that apple takes. I just rounded up to about a third.

The fact is the App Store wall entry fee is fair. It's not exorbitant. If you don't like it make a web app. There are too many remedies for this, and there are far bigger fish to fry in anti-trust than this.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#310

Post by evilduck »

LordDragonfang wrote: post #304
evilduck wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure about that? Small town businesses have lamented Walmart moving in for ages, Verizon can _absolutely_ prevent another phone from joining their network, they even charge activation fees on top of it all. And Android _is_ the alternative store if you don't like shopping on iOS, and the monopoly holder to boot. I can't run .ipa files on Android either, why can't we sue Google for not supporting that SDK, since t…

While I agree with everything you're saying, Google's android literally allows you to install third party app stores and even sideload apps. Google does not behave at all like Apple in that regard.

Sure, but how does that make Apple a monopoly abuser without broadening the definition to the point of it being applicable to damn near everything?
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