Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year • Hacker News Board

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#531

Post by downerending » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 4:46 AM UTC

FuckButtons wrote: post #509

downerending wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a frank answer. I've worked with various foreigners and H1Bs over a long career and always enjoyed it. I worry sometimes that they're being seriously abused by their employers, but I figure that's for them to decide. I feel less positive about the program these days given that a number of companies have made it a point of pride to emphasize hiring of "diverse" employees, which seems in reality to be a pretext…

I’m English, there was no English cuisine before Indian food. The closest thing we had to a national dish was fish and chips, which frankly, is fucking awful. About all you can say for English food is that we make nice beer.

Well, indeed, maybe it was an easy mark. But still, "fish and chips" was a thing here in the US in the 1970s to 1990s at least, and I still remember "Long John Silver's" with great nostalgia. (Not sure a Brit would care for it, but at least it was freshly fried.)

Mushy peas, on the other hand, are probably unsalvageable. Except, maybe, with a nice curry sauce... :-)

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#532

Post by newfriend » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #424

pascalxus wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand how this might seem unfair to immigrants. this part is completely wrong: "If they have more workforce they can do more". The demand for labor is not determined by the supply of labor, it's determined by the demand for those products. When companies higher engineers for example, they don't just go, "hey, we just had two brilliant engineers interview, so instead of highering 1, we'll higher 2." It neve…

Let's talk about immigrants that are being paid well, for a moment -- since Trump is seeking ban those people as well. (Also since I myself am one such immigrant, and I know several immigrants who were being paid extremely well, whose H-1B cases were denied by the US government under the guise of software engineering not being a "specialty occupation"[1]). A friend of mine last year got a job as a L5 at Google, for a…

No one here has contempt and hatred for immigrants, you're just being melodramatic. People have contempt for companies abusing the H1-B system.

Your entire post seems fairly out of touch. You're talking about Google L5, basically the top 1% of H1-B jobs in the US.

> Also, I'm trying to understand why companies go through all the processing delays, legal costs, frequent unjust denials since 2017, to hire someone who is not a citizen, while paying them well above the median for the job, if there is a supposed oversupply of talented top-tier skilled people who are looking for a job. The truth i that oversupply myth is just a lie, spun by people with anti-immigrant animus, plain and simple.

Just because you can't understand it, doesn't mean it's not happening. I have personally witnessed the oddly-specific job requirement postings, and have had friends who worked at some of these consulting companies as H1-B. Things are very different outside of the top tech companies. There is absolutely abuse happening. This is not some "anti-immigrant animus". This is happening. It's frankly ridiculous that you blame this on xenophobia on HN of all places.

I can't fathom the head space you would have to be to believe there isn't widespread H1-B abuse after reading countless articles and comments about it. Incredible arrogance and entitlement, combined with a generous dose of disdain for citizens wanting to protect their country from abuse probably.

Criticism of a widely abused immigration system and the companies that abuse it is not anti-immigrant sentiment.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#533

Post by kondu » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 4:51 AM UTC

theduder99 wrote: post #291

vsskanth wrote: post #57

This is going to have a chilling effect on international students thinking of coming to the United States. Many people who do end up getting kicked out will probably take their jobs with them back home, especially in tech.

Many international students come to the US to get a world class education. That won't change.

Not at all. For most of the universities, grad schools are absolute cash cows. International students come here for grad school largely because of the associated 3 year(2 for non-STEM) OPT period and ease of getting a H1B during it.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#534

Post by black_13 » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

If you really need ppl to do the work make them here. Lots of ppl are available currently.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#535

Post by tekknik » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:14 AM UTC

jhardy54 wrote: post #521

john_moscow wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is the reason why we need to rethink our current culture of censorship and social media outrage. It explains a non-trivial logical connection, showing how something that could look unpopular from the surface, would pay off in the long run. Except you cannot make comments like this in public anymore. Because all it takes is an angry mob leader shouting "%USERNAME% is %CLICHE%ist" and that's it. Your emplo…

Explaining my downvote: I'm thoroughly annoyed at all of the versions of this comment on HN lately. It adds nothing to the discussion, and derails the conversation we were having to talk about some vague injustice where People These Days don't let you say Stuff Like This. Can you point to something you've said that's resulted in the problem you've described?

Does it have to be something parent specifically said? If not look around the news?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#536

Post by tekknik » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:15 AM UTC

perfmode wrote: post #504

hintymad wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

please lend your support to the ongoing movement to shift investment from the prison-industrial complex into health and education.

Please explain what the “prison-industrial complex” is

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#537

Post by fredfoobar » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #522

fredfoobar wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait, YOU said that it's obvious your words: > I'm not referring to a deep secret. This is well documented. Just search the Internet for H1-B "prevailing wage" loophole and you'll find some. and in the next sentence you seem to imply that it is not obvious, again your words: > but it is quite nuanced and I don't remember the details

> wait, YOU said that it's obvious Nowhere did I say it. Definitely not in this statement: > I'm not referring to a deep secret. This is well documented. Just search the Internet for H1-B "prevailing wage" loophole and you'll find some. I suggest that if you want to have a fruitful discussion, you not put words into people's mouths.

How else can that very statement be parsed?

* A "loophole" is easily searchable on the internet, and that I'll find "some"

* You don't believe that is "obvious"

scratches head> You ok, my dude?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#538

Post by yibg » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:18 AM UTC

amznthrowaway5 wrote: post #512

diebeforei485 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure- but there is never going to be a perfect policy. Facebook Engineering typically hires people with degrees from great programs, or great prior experience. But most of the "IT" work done by InfoSys and others are things that can practically be done by Americans as well. It would take training, but it wouldn't take a degree from a top university. So - companies like InfoSys and Tata are a good place to start.

Sure, but the big corp issue should also be addressed. Do you really believe a lot of big corp work couldn’t be done by other Americans? People like Zuck aren’t advocating for more h1bs under current rules out of the goodness of their hearts.

Of course it benefits FB, but I'm not convinced it's about cost. FB is almost constantly hiring, implying there are more open positions than available qualified candidates. That coupled with what seems like on par compensation for H1B employees + the added cost of sponsoring a H1B worker to me means it's about hiring enough qualified candidates rather than saving money.

You can argue FB (and other FAANG companies) can just pay more. But 1) the FAANG compensation is already plenty high and 2) the talent pool is finite, and if FB pulls more from the local pool there is just less left for other companies. As it is less well known tech companies were (pre covid anyways) already having a hard time hiring because they can't afford to pay FAANG comp. Theoretically if you get rid of H1B workers and force up top end compensation, then we'll just have less workers available for the lower tier companies.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#539

Post by fredfoobar » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:18 AM UTC

fredfoobar wrote: post #469

SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they do not own their citizen, that is why you can take them to the US or other developed countries. However yes you do rob these countries of skilled workforce, and yes you do create an environment, which stuntnts the growth of these countries and yes you do increase the misery of the other citizen who is left in that countries. You just have to be honest, and say that benefit for US outweighs the loss for…

I don't think someone from a collectivist culture will never be able to understand the motivations of someone from an individualistic culture, I believe it's a pretty deep seated blindness. I can't help you, rather, we can't help each other, you just have to be in the right region of the globe that supports your intrinsic culture. [1] > which stuntnts the growth of these countries and yes you do increase the misery o…

I meant: "I think someone from a collectivist..." Can't edit my posts any longer.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#540

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

hintymad wrote: post #446

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

I’m going to go off the rails more. You can’t reform the education system in a vacuum without dealing with larger societal problems that affect the US.

The war on drugs - have unfairly targeted minorities breaking up families and when they get out of jail, its harder to get a job because of their criminal record. No matter how good the education system is, if the students home life is unstable, education suffers.

Government funding through court ordered fines and tickets that also cause people to enter the criminal justice system when they can’t afford to pay. They end up in jail and lose their jobs. Again an unstable home life.

Lack of affordable higher education. Also, colleges love to give spots to non US citizens because they pay the full tuition costs.

Education funding is based on local property taxes. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.