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Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

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Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#421

Post by pascalxus »

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

I can understand how this might seem unfair to immigrants.

this part is completely wrong: "If they have more workforce they can do more".

The demand for labor is not determined by the supply of labor, it's determined by the demand for those products. When companies higher engineers for example, they don't just go, "hey, we just had two brilliant engineers interview, so instead of highering 1, we'll higher 2." It never works that way. Companies need the amount of labor they need, and not one person more.

The reality is there's a vast oversupply of labor right now in most fields. Wages have been stagnant for a long time. And even in the bay area, average engineering salaries lag behind the local COL.

Furthermore, the US simply won't allow for enough housing to be built. Even with the population we currently have, there's no where near enough housing. this problem is only getting worse. Sure, it's just politics, it's a choice voters have made, but we're stuck with that choice. And, having more immigrants/increasing population makes it worse.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#422

Post by weyland108 »

cromka wrote: post #394
okapple wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1B Employee with 100k Salary contributes $12,400 to Social Security and $2,900 Medicare every year. (Total:$15,300 per year). Majority H1B from India and China are stuck in green card backlog; with the current immigration system, they will never get the green card. Option for them is to stay in the USA on H1B in green card waiting queue or return home. (I do not think this is right or wrong people who are stuck in t…

Social Security contributions are not forfeited, they're your for life.

How so? Do they pay you back ssn taxes if you leave?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#423

Post by [deleted] »

braindead_in wrote: post #409
codelord wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left my country to escape a totalitarian regime. I think just because you are born in a place doesn't mean you have the responsibility to completely sacrifice your life. Humans collectively have an obligation to help lift poor countries out of poverty. The question is are you against immigration because you genuinely care about the poverty in my country?

Calling the Indian Government a totalitarian regime is stretching it a bit too much. India is still a paradise of liberty compared to China and some other countries in our region. Indians want H1B because they want to earn in dollars, plain and simple. All other reasons are secondary. H1B is modern-day bonded labor. You guys are the sugar slaves of this age, like it or not.

[deleted]

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#424

Post by winter_blue »

pascalxus wrote: post #421
codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

I can understand how this might seem unfair to immigrants. this part is completely wrong: "If they have more workforce they can do more". The demand for labor is not determined by the supply of labor, it's determined by the demand for those products. When companies higher engineers for example, they don't just go, "hey, we just had two brilliant engineers interview, so instead of highering 1, we'll higher 2." It neve…

Let's talk about immigrants that are being paid well, for a moment -- since Trump is seeking ban those people as well. (Also since I myself am one such immigrant, and I know several immigrants who were being paid extremely well, whose H-1B cases were denied by the US government under the guise of software engineering not being a "specialty occupation"[1]).

A friend of mine last year got a job as a L5 at Google, for around $380k a year in total ($190k base + $28.5k bonus + approx $160k stock). Plus a sign-on of $50k. First year pay is $430k. He's not doing rocket science, or managing. He's an individual contributor writing back end code.

Meanwhile, there are folks doing a similar jobs in Canada, who are making 100k CAD (on the high end), which is $73k USD. And the cost of living in big cities in Canada is shockingly high.

Now, you were saying something about bay area salaries being low? The salaries are, if anything, over the top insanely high.

Also, I'm trying to understand why companies go through all the processing delays, legal costs, frequent unjust denials since 2017, to hire someone who is not a citizen, while paying them well above the median for the job, if there is a supposed oversupply of talented top-tier skilled people who are looking for a job. The truth i that oversupply myth is just a lie, spun by people with anti-immigrant animus, plain and simple.

I can't fathom the head space you would have to be in to think that salaries are low. Incredible arrogance and entitlement, combined with a generous dose of xenophobia probably. Instead of being thankful, there are people who want to cut off / deport / exclude people from working in the US (and I mean people making these high salaries).

Also, I know a lot of H-1B holders with high salaries. I myself am one of them. (In fact I don't know any low-paid H-1B holders, but my social circles are all folks working at top companies or friends from other social groups.) The intense amount of hatred for immigrants on HN always continues to appall and amaze me.

I usually tend to refrain from commenting on these threads, because the toxic amount of contempt and hatred for immigrants that I come across in these threads is extremely upsetting, but sometimes it's better to speak up, than be silent.

[1] See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20671424

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#425

Post by pascalxus »

vishakh82 wrote: post #299

So many people here are celebrating this order due to its supposed abstract benefits but are somehow unaware of the its cruelty. So many visa holders in this country will be unable to leave and enter the country for the foreseeable future. If they have sick parents abroad they will not be able to visit them or, in the most tragic circumstances, say goodbye in person. It won't matter whether someone is a world-class r…

I agree, this aspect absolutely sucks. I really feel, the people that have already been here for a long time should be eligible for citizenship to give them stability.

But, for the long term, this country really needs to start preventing "new" immigrants from coming because the US can't house enough people. Enough housing is not allowed to be built, so it doesn't make sense to keep having an expanding population in that type of situation.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#426

Post by gruez »

baddox wrote: post #406
gruez wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How does preventing a legal employee from visiting home and returning to the US help anyone who happened to be born in the US From a pure economics view: it does because it constrains the supply of labor. Sure, many (most?) people would probably stay and not not go back, but there's always going to be a few who do go back. That constrains the labor supply, which in theory will raise the price of labor for everyone s…

Sure, it “constrains the labor supply” by making people choose their livelihood over visiting their family. I think that very obviously qualifies as cruelty.

>I think that very obviously qualifies as cruelty.

Whether or not it's cruel is orthogonal to whether it helps native workers. Summarily executing all visa holders is also cruel, but would probably also help native workers by constraining supply.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#427

Post by Apocryphon »

2ion wrote: post #420
satya71 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. This is already happening. As US becomes a less inviting destination for the best talent, the talent will find home elsewhere. This might be beginning of the end of US tech dominance.

That's a long road. Very few tech firms generate the kind of money from tech abroad like many US firms do. You won't be earning 300k in a non-US company in Germany very very likely when looking at similarly-levelled roles (to exclude high-powered roles) compared to the US. You'll be looking at 1/3rd the total comp max in many cases and that'll already be a very good salary in the field. And possibly higher taxes, no…

High comp doesn't go nearly as far if the jobs are located in high CoL places with declining QoL.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#428

Post by Apocryphon »

latenightcoding wrote: post #146
belltaco wrote: post #38

This is great news for Canada. Once the Covid situation resolves, if Trudeau doesn't give a lot of incentives for tech companies to build offices there Canada will miss out on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Canada has already been benefiting from the recent restrictions on work visas and rejecting visas for no reason, for example by saying a forensic pathologist isn't a specialty occupation. https://www.npr.org/20…

Tech salaries are not even close. Only Toronto and Vancouver would be attractive options for tech workers, both cities have a housing problem.

Montreal needs to step up with their salaries.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#429

Post by noncoml »

2ion wrote: post #414
rantwasp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a textbook example of when someone should lose their job on the spot

Because somebody's feelings were hurt? That's a useless argument to make against a professional who's basically effective at his job and very useful to society. The US is useless at civil rights these days precisely because it's all between "my feels" and straight out looting. Conditioned knee jerking all over the place.

I agree with you. Unless it can be proven that he provided sub-par care because I was a foreigner, which I am pretty sure that he didn't, then there is absolutely no case for losing his job, or even be warned.

It's good to talk about our feelings and try to be considered to each other, but we should put facts and reason above feelings, which are not objective, otherwise we are doomed as society.

Having said that, if I would see my employee talk to a customer like this, I would definitely ask them to be more professional and discreet. Either here, in US, or back in my home country, where I think xenophobia is worse.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#430

Post by weyland108 »

braindead_in wrote: post #409
codelord wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left my country to escape a totalitarian regime. I think just because you are born in a place doesn't mean you have the responsibility to completely sacrifice your life. Humans collectively have an obligation to help lift poor countries out of poverty. The question is are you against immigration because you genuinely care about the poverty in my country?

Calling the Indian Government a totalitarian regime is stretching it a bit too much. India is still a paradise of liberty compared to China and some other countries in our region. Indians want H1B because they want to earn in dollars, plain and simple. All other reasons are secondary. H1B is modern-day bonded labor. You guys are the sugar slaves of this age, like it or not.

Makes you a slave master nonetheless.
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