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Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

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Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#451

Post by diebeforei485 »

runawaybottle wrote: post #280
fountainofage wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a mix. Which is part of the problem with the national debate / conversation. There are companies who found the absolute best in the world that they have to have. So they need that H1-B to get the job done and hire the best person. Then there are companies who just want to contract out super cheap labor, so they do thousands of H1-B applications hoping a few hundred make it through, then the they cha…

So the second example I’m assuming is the operating model of companies like Accenture, Cognizant, etc. I’m flooding this thread a bit, but I’ve always been a little confused by the consultancy firms. Is there a clear difference between off shoring and H1B? Or is it mostly the same thing for these companies, with different margins for each.

Consultancy firms often have an offshore team in a lower cost country (India, Phillipines, Mexico). The consulting firm typically employs a few people in the US on H-1B visas, contracted to the client, for communication with the offshore team, onsite support for the client, and generally managing things.

But the client often has their own employees on H-1B visas as well. This is unrelated to either offshoring/consulting.

Eg. Take a company like Apple. Apple hires employees on H-1B visas and pays them well.

But also Apple uses consulting firms (both US-based and offshored) for specific projects/functions. These workers are not Apple employees. They are employees of the consulting company -- or in some cases, there is a chain of contracts where they are employed by one company, which contracts them out to a consulting firm, which then contracts them out to end client (Apple).

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#452

Post by gizmondo »

SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #336
codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

It is very strange that people in this comment section shout "nationalism, BAD" when someone says that skilled people should stay in their own country and potentially help these countries to grow out of poverty, and statements like the one you just made - essentially rob these country of talented people and bring them into US - is somehow not nationalistic and good.

Why don't you go to one of those countries and help it to grow out of poverty? It's pretty easy to be generous at the expense of others.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#453

Post by greatwhitenorth »

noncoml wrote: post #374
greatwhitenorth wrote: post #274

In this thread, people who have no clue about how H1B works are making dumb comments (both for and against) with such confidence. Before some one asks me, I was a H1B visa holder and know how the system works. It makes me think how many such people are commenting in other threads that they've no clue about. Never ever follow any advice from a HN thread is a good rule to follow.

Maybe, but your comment doesn't help much either. If you think someone made an erroneous comment, it would be good to correct them by replying to it, or just summarize the common misconceptions and share your expertise in a top level comment. Saying that people are making dumb comments, I know how it works, but then not following up, is not in the spirit of HN

My point was to make people go do their own research and not believe what some random person writes (including me). If some one doesn't want to know the truth and here only for spicy half-truths/lies, it's up to them. Don't give me the spirit of HN crap, this is just another website.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#454

Post by grad_ml »

joelbluminator wrote: post #94
belltaco wrote: post #38

This is great news for Canada. Once the Covid situation resolves, if Trudeau doesn't give a lot of incentives for tech companies to build offices there Canada will miss out on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Canada has already been benefiting from the recent restrictions on work visas and rejecting visas for no reason, for example by saying a forensic pathologist isn't a specialty occupation. https://www.npr.org/20…

I hope it does. But I wonder if a very bad economic crisis (that some say started in 2008 and we never truly recovered from) may cause a similar wave of xenophobia and civil unrest in Canada as we now see happening in the U.S. I know Canada is a very different country than the U.S and much less prone to massive civil unrest, but all and all it's not that much different than countries like UK, Germany, France etc - wh…

I don't think same would happen in Canada. What US lawmakers have done, is to put a tap on green card basis on the country of origin. Indians on H1B wouldn't get their green card, in their life time, period. If there were no Indians waiting for green card, it wouldn't have been a big issue. It is by design. Indians are new B

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#455

Post by hintymad »

koolba wrote: post #315
vishakh82 wrote: post #299

So many people here are celebrating this order due to its supposed abstract benefits but are somehow unaware of the its cruelty. So many visa holders in this country will be unable to leave and enter the country for the foreseeable future. If they have sick parents abroad they will not be able to visit them or, in the most tragic circumstances, say goodbye in person. It won't matter whether someone is a world-class r…

> So many people here are celebrating this order due to its supposed abstract benefits but are somehow unaware of the its cruelty. To be blunt, a nation's citizens and permanent residents' rights to economic prosperity outweigh any temporary worker's right to continued employment. Yes it may be viewed as cruel in the individual case, but the point of these visas are not to provide a vehicle for those workers to come…

I don't know. What would happen if we apply the same line of logic to undocumented residents? Should the X-word be waiting for you?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#456

Post by rantwasp »

2ion wrote: post #414
rantwasp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a textbook example of when someone should lose their job on the spot

Because somebody's feelings were hurt? That's a useless argument to make against a professional who's basically effective at his job and very useful to society. The US is useless at civil rights these days precisely because it's all between "my feels" and straight out looting. Conditioned knee jerking all over the place.

no. because the paramedics were asking stupid questions not related to their job that had the potential to aggravate the patient’s condition.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#457

Post by fredfoobar »

runawaybottle wrote: post #289
fredfoobar wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other words, the company should expect to pay close to market rate per H1B plus the fee. what's different now? they're legally required to do both as of now. Are you telling me that the H1-B that is hired doesn't do any work and free-loading off the American economy without paying any taxes (like Social Security, which they don't get to access). Could you share what that job posting was? I'd love to look at it,…

I’m not implying anything about the actual workers. I’m mostly being suspicious of corporations that have over 50% of their staff as h1bs or off shore. I feel that’s probably set up that way for one of the common reasons in business ($$$$). Just trying to learn how the math works out. I have no doubt Google is hiring the very best worldwide, but I have sincere suspicions that your average enterprise found a way to ke…

> Also to your last point, this is something no one can prove. How am I going to prove that a company can hire that talent locally? They’ll just say they met with candidates and they weren’t up to snuff. You can’t prove anything in that situation, all you can really do is look at the numbers from a bird’s eye view and see that hey, over half your staff is world class rare talent apparently.

So, you're telling me that they're gonna pay the same amount they'd pay for a local employee PLUS the H1-B overhead, just to hire a foreign worker?

Put yourself in the shoes of the employer, what are you to gain from this? (hint: it sure isn't monetary)

To me, what you mention seems like veiled xenophobia, I hope I'm wrong.

Posting this again from another thread: > Employers must attest to the Department of Labor that they will pay wages to the H-1B nonimmigrant workers that are at least equal to the actual wage paid by the employer to other workers with similar experience and qualifications for the job in question, or the prevailing wage for the occupation in the area of intended employment – whichever is greater.

source: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#458

Post by vbtemp »

on_and_off wrote: post #450
vbtemp wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple important points: 1. SV/FAANGs, like elite colleges, only hire some very small percentage of people who apply. Many people who are perfectly well qualified and have successful careers otherwise get denied employment. 2. The market cap of these FAANGs is in the trillions . Between talent and capital, there's literally no problem they can't solve (they can solve problems about cyber bullying, trolling, etc but t…

1 - I am the first one to complain about our broken hiring practices, but just because you get a first interview does not mean you are qualified for the job. 2/3/4 -> FAANG have a ton of money but no incentive at all to spend it on philanthropy. I wish it was not the case, but their only job is to make their investors happy. 3 - is it dishonest ? For sure there are some kids in SV, LA,etc that could work in tech if t…

This is not a correct reading of what I wrote. Investing in local (or at least domestic) employment pipelines at all is not philanthropy. Seeing it as philanthropy is patronizing.

Let's just have a thought experiment (maybe we'll see what happens if the ban continues) - what will Big Tech do if H1B is not a thing anymore?

Second thought experiment - who benefits most from H1B? First of all, the H1B holders themselves. Second, the tech industry itself. Further out from that benefits are less clear and more mixed. We are a nation of immigrants seeking opportunity, immigration is important to this country. Immigrants brings a lot of economic and cultural benefits, and we must always fight bigotry and discrimination towards our immigrants. But there is also much more complexity surrounding immigration policies, and they have their cost, too.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#459

Post by grad_ml »

samfisher83 wrote: post #80
belltaco wrote: post #38

This is great news for Canada. Once the Covid situation resolves, if Trudeau doesn't give a lot of incentives for tech companies to build offices there Canada will miss out on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Canada has already been benefiting from the recent restrictions on work visas and rejecting visas for no reason, for example by saying a forensic pathologist isn't a specialty occupation. https://www.npr.org/20…

People in Canada aren't making US salaries. Most people want to go to the US for the money.

One have to put things in prerspective. It took 40-50 years for the silicon valley to become what is is today. Once there are enough tech presence in Canada, tech situation would improve. There would be ample amount of tech folks, and new innovations would come along. New companies would be founded and things would be at par, or even better. Anyhow I see, US heading towards political turmoil/instability.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#460

Post by grad_ml »

downerending wrote: post #438
addicted wrote: post #351

I’m curious. HN has largely agreed that the current pandemic showed that remote work is absolutely doable. At the same time, people are claiming that the H1B visa, which allows immigrants to work in the US at largely American salaries, are taking away American jobs. So the stated solution is to do away with the visa and send those people back to their home countries. So why does anyone believe that when those people…

Flipping that around, if a company can hire someone for less in a foreign country and get the same result, why bother going through the H1B process? Why the drama? Just do it.

No one knew about pandemic. No one knew we all can work remote. It's a mix day for folks who are cheering up ban. It proves work can be done be remotely. But how remote we be, is yet to be determined.
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